The Burning Of America — Open Thread

The Burning Of America — Open Thread

Very few comments yesterday about the homicidal differences between whites and blacks. But, really, what can be said about that everybody doesn’t already know—whether or not they’d say it aloud. The fear of being called a “racist” is more debilitating than concern in having your home burnt down.

Speaking of that. My idea is this: Every progressive cheering these “protests” on as noble and just must post a map to their house and provide a book of matches to the mob, or be exposed for the lying hypocritical scum they are.

As far as the impetus of the riots, it is following the usual sad trajectory: initial damning video, cowardly leadership signals an immediate retreat, mayhem begins, then the slow leak of relevant information. Floyd died drunk or drugged up and not of asphyxiation; turns out he’s a serial criminal, fresh from jail, involved prior gunplay; he worked for a porn site, the cop busting him knew him, and so on. Doubtless there will be more.

It won’t matter. The facts aren’t that interesting, not after the real events begin. What’s the difference what started it. All these spontaneous riots spontaneously developing all over the
country simultaneously are spontaneous anyway. Right? Has nothing do with the election the Democrats knew was otherwise hopeless. Right?

Trump teased us with a hint he’d return to the old ways and shoot looters. Didn’t happen. Even after the White House was charged. Twitter called his bluff. The looting, pillaging, rioting and mayhem spread. It’s is spreading still.

Regular readers will know these words: “For the dictator, in the last resort, is not so much a master of intrigue and cruelty as a man with sufficient moral courage to open fire.”

They are from C Northcote Parkinson’s slim but valuable volume The Evolution of Political Thought. He describes (as all great political authors have described) how a democracy like ours might turn into a dictatorship. You can read the whole post, but the most relevant passage for us is this:

If [creation of socialism] succeeded, the State would acquire such an accumulation of centralised power — political, economic, religious and cultural — that some of the former upper class would be goaded into revolt. Supposing the conspiracy or rising should attract any measure of support, in the name of freedom, the strongest personality in the government would make himself dictator during the emergency: thereafter, the rising crushed, he would remain dictator as a precaution against any future threat of the same kind.

In the opposite case, supposing that the socialist police state has not been firmly established, the middle classes might rally to protect their lives and property. In the struggle they will appoint a leader or more probably allow the leader to appoint himself. By the time the conflict ends in a middle-class victory, the leader will have become dictator; and he must remain dictator, this time in a capitalist police state, to prevent the proletariat rising again.

Civil War of this kind seems likely to produce dictatorship in any case; nor do dictatorships of different origin differ from each other as much as might be supposed. For the dictator, in the last resort, is not so much a master of intrigue and cruelty as a man with sufficient moral courage to open fire.

The first path doesn’t seem viable. Any internal revolts among our elites, who are happily consolidating their power, have been few and minor. The progress toward oligarchy continues.

We came closest to the second path. This was the opportunity. Or, rather, an opportunity. The courage was lacking. My money is on the cowardly surrender, if only because that’s the usual way. For now. Nobody wants to be called a “racist”.

On the other hand, this:

Or this:

If they manage to sell this ‘white supremacist’ angle, we’re either ten times dumber than I thought, or they’re a hundred times smarter.

What do you say?

This is the best speech (whole one at the link) anybody has given yet about the (encouraged, promoted, supported) lawlessness.

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  1. Michael Dowd

    G. Soros likes it. He pays for it. Instigating anarchy costs money at the moment. When it doesn’t he better watch out.

  2. Kent Clizbe

    “If they manage to sell this ‘white supremacist’ angle, we’re either ten times dumber than I thought, or they’re a hundred times smarter.”

    Well, it has no relation to anyone’s intelligence.

    The result you describe is all about diligence.

    The focused effort to destroy Normal American confidence and self-worth has been running non-stop for 95 years. The result is PC-Progressive hatred of Normal Americans accepted as a cultural given.

    The latest, and there will be more, never-ending, operation is straight out of the Muenzenberg playbook. The Sacco and Vanzetti case was the first, in 1925.×612

    Muenzenberg’s payload, then, just as it is repeated now: America is a racist, sexist, imperialist, xenophobic, capitalist hell-hole, and it must be changed.

    While Muenzenberg was intelligent, the effects of continuing his influence operation for 95 years are not due to a “stupid” target audience–the effects are due to brilliant messaging, simple design, and human nature.

  3. Sheri

    Sorry, but any time FOUR cops are needed to subdue a handcuffed person on the ground, this is STUPID, WRONG AND THEY SHOULD BE FIRED. It was totally uncalled for and may have been the cause. Fact is, the cop had 17 (I believe) brutality/excessive force complaints. Facts don’t matter, though, of course. As far as autopsies, you obviously believe Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide. Like at least a couple more people believe. Notice the fired, charged cop has his hand in his pocket and is basically laughing at the guy gagging. But, as you said, facts don’t really matter, do they Briggs? Note, too, that underlying conditions did not count in Covid, so they have that on their side. Who needs facts when you have precedence?

    Could have more to do with shutting people in for two months, but again never look at another theory if you’ve already made up your mind about the facts. Why would the Dems wait for an event? They can riot at any time and just make things up. Oh, sorry, nasty fact…..

    There are no bad cops, of course, so this has to be the fault of the bad guy. You know, like Trump is always at fault for everything. Interesting how reality can so easily be kicked to the curb when one is so invested in a narrative…..

    There have been MANY opportunities ever since we turned the population into whiney little infants. Started with FDR. Like climate change people, the prediction is made every time that this is the last and we are going down on this one. We are going down, but predicting the time and the event are as likely as solving The Theory of Everything. It makes people look foolish.

    Want to slow this down? EMP—take out ALL ELECTRONIC DEVICES AND REPEAT AS NECESSARY. Note I say “slow this down” because societies implode on a regular basis and so far as I know, always will. You (Briggs) know why.

  4. Sylvain Allard

    In the image I saw, there were not that many black people amongst the protestors.

  5. Hoyos

    Sheri, you’re factually wrong about some things.

    What follows isn’t about this specific instance per se but about violence in general.

    The nature of violence often times requires as many as four of more depending on what’s happening, not just cops, but bouncers, security personnel, etc. will use these tactics as well. It isn’t school yard horseplay, getting a large possibly drunk/drugged up/mentally ill fellow to play nice until you can get him out of the street/venue/etc. is no joke even if he is hand cuffed. Four guys is everybody grabbing a limb and even then thrashing about the guy can hurt himself or others seriously.

    I can totally buy wanting to have extra guys on hand, because as you’re arresting/86ing/committing/etc. the guy may have friends nearby or even just random ne’er do well bystanders looking for a free shot (happens A LOT). While you’re busy being a manly man cowboy trying to subdue a guy without backup, his friend is winding up to punch you in the back of the skull as hard as he can.

  6. Kent Clizbe

    “I am trying to reconcile this about George Floyd with what you posted about the porn site.”

    Try reconciling Floyd’s history of criminality, violence, theft, and mayhem, and years in prison:

    “The final straw for Floyd came after serving five years in prison in 2009 for aggravated assault stemming from a robbery in 2007 where he entered a woman’s home, pressed a gun into her stomach and searched the home for drugs and money, according to court records.

    “Floyd pleaded guilty to the robbery where another suspect posed as a worker for the local water department, wearing a blue uniform in an attempt to gain access to the woman’s home, according to the charging document.

    “But when the woman opened the door, she realized he was not with the water department and attempted to close the door, leading to a struggle.

    “At that time, a Ford Explorer pulled up to the home and five other males exited the car and went up to the front door.

    “The report states the largest of the group, who the victim later identified as Floyd, ‘forced his way inside the residence, placed a pistol against the complainant’s abdomen, and forced her into the living room area of the residence.

    ‘This large suspect then proceeded to search the residence while another armed suspect guarded the complainant, who was struck in the head and sides by this second armed suspect with his pistol while she screamed for help.’

    “Not finding any drugs or money at the house, the men took jewelry and the woman’s cell phone and fled in their car. A neighbor who witnessed the robbery took down the car’s license plate number.

    “Later, police tracked down the car and found Floyd behind the wheel. He was later identified by the woman as the large suspect who placed a gun against her stomach and forced her into her living room, the document states.”

  7. Sander van der Wal

    AFAICS, the white supremacist card was not played that often the last year or two. Occasionally Trump is one, but given that Trump is always some kind of evil, so the white supremacist evil has to come up now and again.

    Trying to get a new narrative established?

  8. Fredo

    Kent amazing contrast in that Thuringia produced the tank army that
    conquered France in a week and followed that up with the likes of
    Muenzenberg. Erfurt/Leipzig region home of the the Walther Wafenfabrik
    and Merkel Flinten, a real hot bed of radical Lutherans, Communists, and
    almost all of the European Kings.
    Just got your book and at glance I’d say you are directly over the target…

  9. Rudolph Harrier

    Minneapolis is now Detroit.

  10. Kent Clizbe

    Thanks, Fredo.

    “…the likes of Muenzenberg.”

    He was one of a kind, and only Thuringian for a moment. He was the prototype of the international communist dedicated to destroying the free world. He was also the prototype covert influence operator, and created the prototype for influence operations designed to destroy a country from within.

    His methods and messages are repeated today, incredibly successfully. He was only wrong in the time required to destroy the USA–it required 8 decades, not a few years. But it was his operations that hollowed out Normal America, and continue to eat away at the guts of the country.

    Knowing the playbook of the opposition should provide protection against those plays. Sadly, that does not seem to be the case. These Muenzenbergian operations will continue over and over.

  11. DAV

    Saying “I can’t breathe” is at best hyperbole since saying so requires breathing.

    The video that I saw shows the cop’s knee on the side of his neck which shouldn’t have cutoff his airflow. He also wasn’t exactly passive while handcuffed. Pinning him by the neck may have been a reasonable option.

    The medical examiner’s report says he didn’t die from strangulation. Toxicology results are pending.

    Best to wait for more facts however, considering the political atmosphere, we may never get them.

  12. JohnM de France

    Do you think that the death certificate will say that Covid-19 was a contributory feature in George Floyd’s decease?

  13. Rudolph Harrier

    It is amazing how even with the extreme amount of damage to the Twin Cities, many people are hesitant to talk about things because they think if they are seen as against the rioters they would racist.

    Yesterday I talked with someone in St. Paul who lives no more than 8 blocks away from a shopping center that was burned and looted. He was understandably worried about his safety and he wisely has started looking for housing outside the Twin Cities. But even with that he kept turning the conversation back to “Even though these riots went too far, the police were in the wrong” or “It’s hard for me to say too much bad about the rioters when their anger is so justified.”

    I had to keep telling him that none of that mattered when his immediate neighborhood was being destroyed before his eyes.

    So far he’s still safe. I hope it stays that way and that he moves out of the cities soon.

  14. w

    “In the image I saw, there were not that many black people amongst the protestors.”

    A political form of colour blindness.

  15. C-Marie

    And, how did Floyd end up on the street side rather than the curb side of the police car?? No video yet that I have seen of that.

    Praying God’s helps if he is in Purgatory.

    In no way suggesting that he went other than to there or to Heaven. I always keep in mind, “Judge not lest you (I) be judged”, from Jesus.

    God bless, C-Marie

  16. Sheri

    Hoyos; The videos do not show the cops standing guard and there is no indication the guy on the ground could move if he tried. Three large cops are on top of a handcuffed guy, smashing him into the street. Please explain how that is necessary. I guess the fourth guy could be standing watch. He doesn’t seem to be doing much else. It’s not schoolyard horseplay, but when you have the guy ON THE GROUND AND CUFFED, why are you smashing him into the concrete? That’s just vile and evil. Cops must be the most cowardly, WEAK, losers out there based on these arguments.

    NO, DAV, saying you can’t breathe DOES NOT REQUIRE BREATHING. I don’t inhale or exhale when I breathe. I do gasp for breath between sentences. You can also talk when your airway is partially blocked and you can barely breathe. So, if the guy said “I can barely breathe”??? You’d just say he can breathe “enough”. People who breathe normally have no idea what is required for speech and breathing. As for the neck, shouldn’t have blocked off the airflow????? Really?????? Like Briggs, you agree that Epstein committed suicide. It may not cut off breathing, but it can and does CAUSE A HEART ATTACK when you block the carotid artery. Interesting. A great way to label a homicide “just a pre-existing condition”.

    General: I notice there are no comments about black cops choking the crap out of black kids, even though there are videos out there. A woman is trying to get the cop to let go in one. The officers is a HUGE guy and seems to delight in intimidating and hurting the suspect. There is a trend in that direction.

    Minnesota has been an intimidation zone for a long time. Somalies are violent people and they are no better behaved in America than in Africa. People have reported leaving Minnesota out of fear of saying anything wrong. It went to hell long ago, and by CHOICE.

  17. Joy

    This is how I felt and thought when I heard the news as it broke on CNN where I wasn’t close enough to see the telly. Still don’t watch the clip when it comes on. There has been description of what is happening. By witnesses. It’s heartbreaking to hear him. I was really annoyed that CNN had the family on within 24 hours and showed the clip prior to them being questioned with a?
    “sorry you had to see that, I wanna get your reaction”!

    I thought it was obviously upsetting and really tragic. and couldn’t reconcile that police would do such a thing but thought they must have been on the back of his neck and caused a C3/4 or 4/5 fracture since that wold explain the affect on breathing. His diaphragm would stop working.
    Then I wondered how could they have put so much pressure on with just a knee? Maybe he had drug related osteoporosis or something else going on. It didn’t make sense.

    Next day I heard they were on the side of his neck which is even harder to cause asphyxiation.
    One corrupted artery will still function and the trachea will move to the side enough.
    Four policemen?
    One said words to the effect,
    “that’s what drugs does to you”

    Due to the fact that I can’t believe someone can be so wicked (which is native) I decided the most likely thing is that he may have had some kind of cardiovascular problem, and internal clot or arterial bleed resulting in odd behaviour, may have made him seem drunk or high.

    Knelling on him and not looking after him was still a wicked thing to do. Ignorant, at best.
    I think manslaughter is the right charge.
    More info about toxicology and what ACTUALLY happened beforehand will be telling.
    I’ve since heard he was already short of breath so maybe a covid related pulmonary embolism or brainstem aneurism/ other aneurism. If his neck was sufficiently stiff then forcing rotation with a knee might cause a fracture.

    I find it easier to think. About the episode that way and it makes more sense as to why four evil policemen would all find themselves on the same shift.
    If I’m right, it’s tragic for the police, too. It was excessive force because he was handcuffed. They are supposed to tailor how much force they use according to the build/age/behaviour, even within the rules.

  18. They are in no way, stwt,
    and we are not immune to dunning-krueger, but we may have seriously overestimated mean iq.

  19. Joy

    That’s one corrupted spell checker and it’s NOT helpful.
    When you speak some air has to pass through the vocal cords. Some. Like swimming under water, you can breath out but only for so long.
    Perhaps the police were so cynical that they’ve heard excuses a thousand times. Just didn’t take him seriously. Especially if they thought he was under the influence. Doesn’t that make more sense?

  20. Joy

    C Marie,
    I think he saw his Mum. Either due to lack of oxygen or for real.
    We don’t know.

  21. Uncle Mike

    These are Punk Riots.

    They have nothing to do with race, police brutality, injustice, or even politics per se. They are the spectacle of looting, smashing, and burning by Punks: petty hoodlums, principally children, aggressive, violent, and cowardly.

    The Punks are among us. They are children raised by drug addicts, abusers, abandoners, loveless parents or parent or no parent at all. The Punks are Wards of the State, accidentally born, uncared for, poorly disciplined, taught lies in government schools, taught victimhood and resentment, taught to beg and steal, then thrown out into urban jungles to fend for themselves.

    It makes no difference who was killed by whom. Thousands of innocent babies are aborted every day — there are no riots about that. Six of ten black pregnancies end in abortion, the Planned Parenthood clinics are located in the inner cities, it’s tantamount to genocide of the black race — there are no riots about that. Lunatic governors stuffed virus-shedding patients into nursing homes causing mass deaths by the thousands — there were no riots about that. The national economy has been crippled by neo-dictators who ordered house arrest of the entire populace — there were no riots about that.

    The long train of abuses by government gone mad against the voters and taxpayers of this country engendered no riots, mainly because the Punks are not voters or taxpayers. They are druggies, arsonists, and looters.

    The store fronts were not smashed for “justice”. The TVs and cases of liquor were not looted for “justice”. Buildings were not set afire for “justice”. This was not political rioting, even if one party claims credit — they’re lying, a sick kind of pandering lie in an attempt to get out in front of the mob as if they were leading it.

    It’s no surprise that Punks target police — they have great familiarity with and contempt for law enforcement because they are chronic criminals and law breakers.

    And because they are Punks, they will soon melt into the darkness, go back underground, disappear until the next opportunity arises to smash, burn, and loot. The immediate crisis will dissipate, but the Punks will always be with us.

  22. Uncle Mike

    You know I’m right. The rioters aren’t the leaders of the community. They aren’t the doctors, lawyers, accountants, teachers, or ministers. They aren’t the even the barbers or hair stylists, the cooks or waitresses, the auto workers or the car salespersons. They aren’t people with jobs or even the recently unemployed.

    Some of the rioters might be students, of a sort. More likely they are dropouts. People who smash windows and loot stores aren’t the backbone of society.

    I went to a demonstration last February. It was attended by loggers and construction workers, truckers and farmers. We were protesting carbon taxes. It was the largest demonstration in recent state history. Thousands gathered on the steps of the State Capitol.

    The din from the truck horns blaring drowned out the speech makers, but it was peaceful. No windows were smashed, no stores looted. The demonstrators were smiling, greeting one another like old friends (and many were). It was very amicable even though the object was serious. Nobody was happy with the Governor or Legislature, but everybody was in good spirits nonetheless. And we stopped the damn tax bill.

    Today’s rioters are not friendly, have no positive purpose, no sense of community. The rioters (calling them protesters is naive and PC claptrap) are there to tear down the community, to assault, loot and burn, not to effect justice. Whatever happened with the incident, it does not justify the reaction.

  23. Milton Hathaway

    Although the riots were triggered by the George Floyd incident, the disconnect came quickly. In Seattle, the rioters and looters were mostly white, and by a large margin. When asked by a witless local reporter why they turned violent, one rioter responded “We started off peaceful, but when they didn’t listen to us, we had to get violent to get their attention.”

    I find the Floyd incident itself more interesting than the rioting. As an old white guy, I’ve never been able to understand the black perspective on this. To me, if you are truly upset about the murder rate of black men, and desperately want to change things, why would you focus so intensely on one of the relatively tiny bars in the Pareto chart, murder by cop? An answer to this question that makes sense to me is only of secondary interest; I’m really interested in at least grasping an explanation that makes sense to a black person. Finally, I found this article, which presents a reason that I can at least understand:

    The reasoning seems to be that black-on-black murder and murder-by-cop are two completely different things. You might as well ask a black person “Cancer kills many more black men than cops do, why don’t you focus your attention on cancer?” The not-so-subtle message is that black-on-black crime is “none of [white people’s] damn business”, and that murder-by-cop is a white problem caused by white prejudice that must be fixed by whites fixing their racial biases.

    To a white guy like me, that reasoning still sounds poorly thought out, but at least I can understand it. When my wife decides to clean house, she focuses on my small collections of junk (my big piles are in the basement and the garage, where they don’t bother her) rather than her much larger piles. It’s human nature, a “speck in your brother’s eye” thing.

    To me, the reasoning is poor because 1) I don’t believe I have any racial biases that have an iota of impact on anyone 2) I scored 96% on a civil service test but still didn’t get the job (the cutoff was well above 100%), so my white ears are pretty deaf to claims of a systematic societal racial bias, 3) By refusing to learn about the challenges cops face and condemning them all for the actions of a very few, especially before all the facts are in, and blanket forcing cops to back-off in certain situations, the totally predictable unintended consequence will be that more blacks will murdered, due to ineffective policing in those situations.

    As I’ve said before in this forum, I believe the root cause of the higher black crime rate is that white liberals, in cahoots with black racial justice warriors, have gone way beyond equality, and, in effect, brought back the slave plantation by giving blacks a built-in societal excuse to fail. Giving someone an excuse to fail, and depriving them of true accountability, is one of the worst possible things you can do to a young, impressionable human being, of any race.

    The remedy is simple: quit voting for liberals. But they didn’t get us into this mess overnight, and it will take us at least a generation or two to get out of it. I won’t live to see it, but I have hope that the seeds have at least been planted.

    Oh, yeah – here’s another article, written in a distinctly Briggsian style:

  24. Joy

    Uncle Mike, you are bang to right! I’m smiling to think of your protesting with the loggers

    Social media wrongan’s and networks of malcontents ‘led’ and ‘admired’ by mainstream media in turn, curry favour with left wing voters. They are afraid to speak the truth. They absolutely ARE leading from behind! Then people minding their own business are told they must speak the truth of the lawless who wreck, destroy, burn, throw rocks, fireworks and intimidate law abiding citizens into changing rules to suit their prejudice. It won’t work.

    The racism is on the side of the looters and the reporters, the anchors, in particular. They create a positive feedback loop and encourage more rioting.

    Isn’t that obvious to authorities?
    Of course it is. They are timid about speaking the truth.
    The action taken by those few will split the vote between those who
    believe in law and order and those who have an anarchic, angry frame of mind.

    Now it’s started in London? The pumpkin instigators

  25. Dean Ericson

    Globalist empire oligarchs desperate. Satanic, one-world, total control nightmare state patiently building since 1945 unraveling. Nationalist resistance to EU spreading, Brits exit, Trump most dangerous of all reelection extending four moar years globalist wrecking. Trump must be destroyed. Tried Russia collusion – fail, tried Ukraine impeachment – fail, Plandemic Terror failing. Next up, riots and mayhem destroying Team Satan city strangleholds – fail. Not our problem. Next? Trump assassination try, epic fail, result crushing head of globalist snake, much hissing and writhing. Popcorn.

  26. Dean Ericson

    Kent Clizbe writes:

    ” While Muenzenberg was intelligent, the effects of continuing his influence operation for 95 years are not due to a “stupid” target audience–the effects are due to brilliant messaging, simple design, and human nature.”

    Thanks Kent, understanding Münzenberg tactics and goals – “We must make Western Civilization stink!” – shines a bright light on situation today. I would only add to your succinct summary that this demoralizing Münzenbergian propaganda is specifically crafted to target Christian Europeans; our concern for principled justice and the brotherhood of man under God, we are a high-trust people who naively believe others are as well, and find it hard to conceive of the sociopath who deliberately deceives while advancing a wicked agenda, much less a conspiracy of like-minded sociopaths hiding behind benign slogans. And while Jews such as Münzenberg, Marx, and Trotsky have provided the brains and spine of this effort, our own useful idiots constitute much of the arms and legs and assholes.

    Stalin, a shrewd judge of dangerous men, had him assassinated, as he did another dangerous Jew, Trotsky.

  27. Dean Ericson

    (That last sentence snuck by the editor.)

  28. Dean,

    “Thanks Kent, understanding Münzenberg tactics and goals – “We must make Western Civilization stink!”

    Muenzenberg, who never even visited the USA, understood the American psyche perfectly. He crafted his covert influence message to appeal to the newly rich, angst-ridden “lost generation” of the 1920s.

    He created the attitude, the beliefs, and the pose of self-loathing that grew and blossomed into its ultimate form: Politically Correct Progressivism.

    And yes, his main targets were the Anglo-Saxon capitalist countries–which survived WW1 relatively unscathed and prosperous. The same message, though, was planted across the spectrum of non-communist countries.

    Muenzenberg was a Bolshevik, a companion of Lenin, and a 100% ethnic German. I don’t delve too much into the ethnic backgrounds of the communists. There are no great insights to be gained there. Some groups were oppressed more than others, and felt a greater need to support revolutions, global and localized.

    The key is to understand the Muenzenberg operation to create a self-loathing and disgust for all things Normal America, that is, to insert a message that leads to cultural suicide.

    Full details in the book:

  29. Hun

    Anybody who focuses on the cop and the (surely totally innocent) black victim is focusing on the wrong thing.

    Nothing justifies the riots. They are plainly wrong and in any sane country, they would have been immediately suppressed by force and the main instigators would be in jail.

    Americans are insane.

  30. Joy

    Just viewed about six seconds of the evidence in question. The policeman is passively holding his position without any signs that the man is resisting at all. During the time of the incident, which according to reports ranges from eight to nine minutes.

    It is long enough for a gradual deficit of oxygen to build up. The policeman doesn’t have to press hard because he has the mechanical advantage there. It is as much to do with those on his back, which were not visible in the video I saw, holding him in place they each contributed to keeping him there.

    They could have let go at any time. With four of them, had he been bluffing *which they might claim, they could soon apprehend him again. Now it’s clear why the M3 charge is in place. Intent in some places can be formed in a split second. The policeman certainly appears intentional in his nonchalance

  31. Dean Ericson

    Kent – your comment interesting, as always. Hope to meet you one day.

  32. C-Marie

    As the world goes, so the Church System of man goes. Well no, actually as those in the headship of the Church go the way of giving up St. Peter’s barque, so the world goes. It is just that at times the world manifests the sinking into ungodliness before the Church System of man shows its true colours.

    Ever notice that as the United States of America has been slowly but surely into setting God and His commandments aside, especially since Vatican II, that more and more odd and awful happenings have been manifesting concerning some in the positions of leadership in the Catholic Church?

    Yes, Jesus said and He will, be with us . . . . I read it through the end of time . . . .until the end of time . . . . even so, God our Father will allow terrible times to bring people into the reality of their need of Him, of His only begotten Son in Whose Name alone is their salvation, and of the total need of being led of and guided by the Holy Spirit, especially now as the times grow worse and worse.

    Take a read of this and come to understand the times we are in with Pope Francis.

    God bless, C-Marie

  33. Uncle Mike

    The news anchors are now calling the riots “mourning”. Who mourns by looting stores and then setting them on fire? Smash and Burn is not an expression of grief.

    The rioters cry “no justice, no peace,” but they have that backwards. Peace is the prerequisite for justice. You cannot achieve justice with random acts of violence and mayhem. Justice prevails only after the fighting is over.

    Ayn Rand famously divided society into Looters and Producers. She was writing fiction but like Orwell her art has become life.

    I fear the concept of “city” has lost it’s verve. Nothing is civil about civic centers. Get out while you can. It’s only going to get worse.

  34. C-Marie

    Yes, very disturbing report. What is sad is that many people, Catholics and others, think that whatever and whoever is Pope and whatever he does or says, is the truth concerning Catholicism.

    Stay in Jesus. Love with His Love. He is and will keep us through sorrows and sufferings that God allows us. Pray for those our Father gives us to pray for. God is wholly trustworthy. And, really important, judge not that ye not be judged.

    God bless, C-Marie

  35. Sheri

    DAV: NO, you do not have to “breathe” to talk. Ever hear of hypoxia??? Not enough oxygen but not zero? And I can prove scientifically you do not have to breathe to talk, at least not for a short period of time. You are assuming it’s “I cannot draw any oxygen whatsoever in” because that fits your narrative. NO. People use “I can’t breathe” to describe the beginnings of and furtherance of hypoxia. It’s a scientific FACT, DAV. You can disagree, but you cannot change that fact. I am quite familiar with all this breathing stuff, having spent years gasping for breath when walking uphill, when allergies are over the top, and as I stated, I do not breathe whatsover when I am actually saying words. Most people exhale as they speak. I do not. I often gasp for breaths between sentences and words, plus trail off at the end of a sentence (as my husband has noted for 30 years). Not everyone gets full oxygen, breathes like a sleeping baby and trots through life just fine. If Floyd had “underlying conditions”, this could be especially true.

    Joy: A little air may come out, but my speech therapist was shocked to find I cannot make sound and measurable air both come out. She had never seen that before. You know how children can make sounds while blowing bubbles with a straw? I can’t. It’s either bubbles or sound. If I breathe out, enough to be noticable, the sound stops. Again, as I said to DAV, we’re talking hypoxia, not complete strangulation and no air whatsoever. So yes, a bit of air. A bit will not sustain a human, however.

    Interesting note: White supremacists are blamed for the rioting (which may or may not be true, but for now, let’s assume it is). Hollywood and Biden are bailing out those arrested in rioting. SO—-Hollywood and Biden are fully, financially and publically supporting WHITE SUPREMACISTS!!!!!! There you have folks. The truth rears its ugly head!

  36. Sheri

    Note: The correct term is “dyspnea”. People often say “I can’t breathe” and in no way mean they are getting zero air. Medical people do not take “I can’t breathe” to mean the person is getting no air in and about to drop dead. They know what is meant. It appears cops do not, and many readers of the news.

  37. Sylvain Allard

    Of course, white supremacy or nationalist using the crowd to cause pandemonium have nothing to do with the looting and destruction. They care so much about what happens to black peoples

  38. Joy

    Yes, Sheri, but that term’s not used@ patients.
    also known as difficulty breathing shortness of breath “sob” in notation. Can happen for very many reasons. Some mechanical/physical, some medical, some psychological.

    “Dys” depicting impeded or reduced function “A” as a prefix meaning an absence of…

    Sorry to disagree but you do have to pass air over vocal cords to talk. Even ventriloquists. Mouths make other sounds but we’re talking about a man clearly articulating his distress. It’s a reasonable assumption that he was complaining because he couldn’t breath properly.

    Try this:
    Humm with your mouth closed and put the heel of your hand over your nose. Your mouth will slowly fill with air.

    It’ reasonable to have heard that voice and thought otherwise. I wondered if the police thought he was bluffing. I’m not excusing what happened, you understand. Had I been there the policeman would have been shoved off.

    As for the term “ breathe”, it is vague enough in common language to mean that both Dav’s assumption and yours are possibly true in a given situation. What ACTually happened is still to be determined. It is also true that many a criminal who has resisted arrest has claimed all sorts of thing during a struggle. People are trying to understand how he could make quite so much noise when in respiratory distress.

    Ventilation is the biological term for breathing.
    Some say respiration but that is strictly at the cellular level.
    It’s like weight gain or loss. There’s a balance and many things can effect the overall deficit or surplus of oxygen and CO2 in a person’a blood. Like a central heating system, only worse.
    The systems controlling an monitoring blood gas vary in sensitivity.

    So there isn’t an argument to have here, really. I think you’re a tough cookie, and wouldn’t have stood by having witnessed that scene. What make s me wonder is why the other bystanders who were so sure of themselves didn’t intervene.

  39. Joy

    see “work of breathing”
    It’s likely that the man became too tired with the weight on him to move his chest cavity enough to keep up. I think he’s a big man and if he’s got a tummy on him it will affect his inspiration when he’s lying on his front.

  40. DAV

    Seems we now have dueling autopsy reports. The Floyds have hired Benjamin Crump who has less than a sterling record. Is he really the only lawyer they could find?

    Yes. People who say “I can’t breathe” really mean “I’m having DIFFICULTY breathing” . The former is an exaggeration. That’s why I called it hyperbole.

    It’s likely a common complaint from those being apprehended. I’ve seen a lot of calls for first degree murder charges in this case but how does one prove intent? The only basis is Floyd claiming difficulty in breathing. This is also the same person who claimed claustrophobia while being placed in one SUV after being pulled from the driver’s seat of another. Sounds like a person prone to exaggeration while being apprehended.

    Gotta wonder why he resisted so much for only passing a bogus $20 bill. I worked in a pizza shop that had a very good fake $20 bill that was received. At an even more than casual glance, it still looked very real. It’s unlikely the person who passed it knew it was fake.

    Hypoxia is lack of oxygen. This is different than lacking the ability to breathe. I once had it while flying. You can breathe pure CO2 and die from insufficient oxygen while continuing to breathe. To make a sound with your voice you need to pass a gas across your vocal chords. Without external help this can only be accomplished by breathing. I’m surprised you don’t know this.

  41. DAV

    As for kneeling on the suspect, this appears to be a routine technique and one that apparently doesn’t do much harm. At least we don’t hear about it very often. Here’s one of the Dallas police doing essentially the same thing:

    The cops clearly didn’t think they were harming the person even though they did.

    Anyone who’s watched reality cop shows has witnessed some variation of it.

    As for why it would take four of them, it’s hard to say. There seem to be three at every traffic stop lately. Once my neighbors got into a domestic dispute and the cops were called. About 40 of them showed up. The street was jammed full of cop cars. My guess is it was a slow day.

  42. DAV

    More on taking four to subdue.

    Long ago I was at a bar that frequently had brawls. During one particular brawl, there were five guys who had grabbed a large (but not enormous) individual and were escorting him toward the door.

    One of the waitresses got into his face while this was going on. He casually threw off the five holding him; bonked the waitress in the forehead; then waited for the five to regrab him. IOW: he cooperated.

    Imagine if he was actively resisting. I suspect cops are well aware of the problems in subduing uncooperative individuals and even assume the worst.

  43. Rudolph Harrier

    Suppose that you woke up one night to find a man in your bedroom, standing over your sleeping wife. When you ask him why he’s there he says that he’s here to rape your wife. He says he’s her coworker and that she has been stealing his lunches, that she keyed his car, and the she filed a false complaint against him causing him to lose out on a promotion. So now he’s going to rape her.

    Do you respond by calmly trying to ascertain whether your wife is guilty of all of these crimes. Or do you get the deranged lunatic out of your house by any means necessary?

    Trying to strain at whether the George Floyd or the police were innocent at this point only gives legitimacy to these riots. There will be plenty of time for that after the fires are put out. For right now all that matters is getting these lunatics off the streets.

  44. DAV

    Rudolph Harrier,
    What are you proposing we do?

    *) Keep pointlessly reiterating how pointless the riots are? How many times do you need to hear that?

    *) Come up with novel ways to quell the riots?

    *) Shut up and grab our guns and join the good guys?

    *) something else?

    Let us know.

  45. Joy

    This is also the same person who claimed claustrophobia while being placed in one SUV after being pulled from the driver’s seat of another. Sounds like a person prone to exaggeration while being apprehended.”
    Ah so that’s what happened Inside the police car that caused the cop to pull him out? Or did this happen own a previous occasion? Anyway, exaggerating was rather what I meant than bluffing.

    The policeman had a gun pointed at anyone approaching him, apparently. That’s likely routine. Haven’t seen the footage completely. It throws up a lot of questions.

    Bystanders were so sure that it was obvious what was happening. All four police evidently, saw no danger to the man.. I must admit it’s easier to think the police were unaware rather than evil.

    The first, report implied or stated that he was under the influence of meth amphetamine and something else. I assumed that before we heard the report because the policeman had said something to that effect according to a witness who heard the commotion once he was already being restrained.

    That might explain a lot. High pulse rate which would require more oxygen to sustain. Potentially a cascade of other effects. Adrenalin from being arrested.

    There was discussion of changing executions method to induce hypoxic effect so they would not have the sensation of suffocation, but merely feel a bit drunk or sleepy in a pleasant way. Similar to what you experienced during flight. What Floyd experienced is rather like crowd crush injury. He knew he couldn’t take enough air in. That induced panic, more adrenalin, faster hearts rate, and so on. If the sensation is that the air you breathe is normal, even if Oxygen is low, the body is not getting the necessary feedback to require larger and deeper breaths or less exertion.

    Regarding the intent,/premeditation, they have to show that they knew the outcome and continued in the knowledge of what was going to happen. I believe they will succeed with manslaughter, since there is a chance he could have been saved. As far as I’m aware, in some states intent or premeditation, if they are the same, can be formed in a fraction of a moment.
    They’re going to have to. show it was obvious what the outcome would be.

    Will they show a dozen other similar incidents where the person stood back up and got into the car? Showing that this incident was a common scenario? What I fail to understand is why the claim is that this is racism. That is projection.

    Had one of the policemen said, “your’e killing him’ instead of a bystander, maybe they would have taken notice. Perhaps each one was relying on the other in a dangerous and irresponsible way. None of the policemen were really in charge.

    Disbelief is not intent. Those asking for the M3 are claiming they knew what they were doing. It looks like they didn’t have a first aid clue.

  46. Joy

    Sky News and the BBC have joined in.
    Credit to the BBC *just this once; a news presenter who is utterly liberal/left biassed read out a comment from someone pointing out all the obvious black versus white fallacies. That the bias of the news reporting was reprehensible.
    (She said it was PROBABLY a minority view)
    People aren’t that dim.

  47. DAV


    This is also the same person who claimed claustrophobia … Ah so that’s what happened Inside the police car that caused the cop to pull him out?

    According to the official complaint (I’m actually quoting from the NR summary I linked earlier):

    Floyd became more uncooperative when Lane and Kueng told him he was being placed under arrest. The complaint alleges that he stiffened up, dropped to the ground, and told them he was claustrophobic. He also refused to get in the squad car, intentionally falling down, refusing to be still. By then, the back-up officers, Chauvin and Officer Tou Thao, arrived in a second police car. Floyd continued to tell all four cops that he would not get into the squad car.

    At a key juncture, the complaint is confusing. Sometime shortly after 8:14 p.m., we’re told, the officers were trying to force Floyd into the backseat of the squad car, when Chauvin “went to the passenger side and tried to get Mr. Floyd into the car from that side,” with Lane and Kueng assisting.

    The complaint then curiously jumps to a new paragraph, which begins by saying Chauvin “pulled Mr. Floyd out of the passenger side of the squad car at 8:19:38 p.m.”

    Note: We are told neither how Floyd came to be in the squad car, nor why Chauvin was pulling him out. Nothing that happened in the interim is related.

    Emphasis mine. There’s five minutes that go unmentioned in the complaint.

    Floyd seemed intent on resisting arrest. He had cried wolf once and went into a squirming act so later when he said “I can’t breathe” the cops undoubtedly thought “yeah! right!”.

    What’s not clear at all is why he so vigorously resisted arrest for passing a bogus $20 bill — something any number of people could do unwittingly or why the store owner called 911. There’s apparently more here than we’ve seen.

    I don’t recall seeing a drawn gun in any of the video’s but it’s difficult to find complete uncut versions of the store security and cell phone cameras.

    I think it will be hard to prove any intent to kill (but then I’m not on the jury and juries are notoriously unpredictable). If the cops wanted him dead you’d think they’d find a more certain way of doing it and in a less public setting.

    Considering all the publicity this has had, it’s going to be very hard to find objective jurors.

    Bystanders were so sure that it was obvious what was happening.

    Bystanders can be potential threats and often are the worst witnesses. At the same bar I mentioned earlier, a wanted arsonist was shot and killed by a fire marshal in the alley behind the bar. (Yes, in my state fire marshals carry guns). I saw the ambulance pull up so I walked around back to see what was going on.Besides the ambulance, I saw some guy waving a badge and a gun (later found out was the fire marshal) and someone lying on the ground (the wanted arsonist). No one else around. One week later, almost everybody at the bar claimed to have seen the shooting. Guess they went back inside for a few more dances before I got there.

    There was discussion of changing executions method to induce hypoxic effect so they would not have the sensation of suffocation, but merely feel a bit drunk or sleepy in a pleasant way.

    I thought the first drug administered was Valium (or some equivalent). It seems odd to want a punishment to be pleasant. Society has become quite squeamish. I guess the days of public drawing and quartering are over. All of the other methods appear to be quite painful. Hanging maybe not if done right. Rather not find out first hand, though.

  48. DAV

    What I fail to understand is why the claim is that this is racism.

    It’s the go-to-card nowadays for everything. There’s even racist global warming.

    That is projection.
    Yes indeed!

    Telling someone they need protection is implying they’re not capable of fending for themselves. To tell someone it’s they can’t succeed because of their skin color is very racist. It’s gotten to the point that some Caucasians claim to be anything but.

    Strangely, though, protected groups rarely seem to see it as such. Maybe they like the entitlement and free rides that go along with it. Maybe they really are as dimwitted and ineffectual as the lefties continually imply they are. Who knows?

  49. Joy

    “…into a squirming act so later when he said “I can’t breathe” the cops undoubtedly thought “yeah! right!”.

    Yes, and it’s very reasonable to assume the action would have been the same, had the man been white or green. When I first heard the clip, it didn’t occur to me that it was more or less tragic because he was black. It was disturbing regardless. The speed with which the media claimed the family’s response and managed the narrative was obscene. Along with playing the sound clip. I thought there were laws about decency here, too but they’ve shown the clip over and over. The sound is enough,. Are they trying to harden people? Do they think the public are so deserving that they should be subjected to kill videos if they want to see the news? Who voted for then?

    “What’s not clear at all is why he so vigorously resisted arrest for passing a bogus $20 bill — something any number of people could do unwittingly or why the store owner called 911. There’s apparently more here than we’ve seen.”

    Absolutely, Inspector DAV. As you said, there is five minutes missing as well. What I didn’t take in from reading your link was his claiming to be claustrophobic, not sure, I must have missed a line.

    Prosecutors are finding it tricky? to charge the other policemen. Maybe because the ordinary clear way forward won’t please the Queen Of Hearts media crowd. Prosecutors may be evaluating what matters more, the mantra or the truth.

    The sound of the voices of the policemen talking will speak volumes to jurors about motive.
    They’ll be able to judge the characters as well. That could alter the verdict entirely.

    On the executions, Hanging is considered more humane but it is less dignified. Once discussed it with a high court judge who was once in criminal law, latterly involved in lawyer Mal practice, “naughty boys”, as he called them. I claimed it is right to reintroduce the death penalty. He smiled and said I “can sympathise with that but `i know how often they get things wrong. If there were a way to be sure…?” (Cut me down to size.) It was a Michael Portillo documentary. One would have to be a pharmacist or anaesthetist to be able to double check the claims in he documentary.

  50. Joy

    “I don’t recall seeing a drawn gun in any of the video’s but it’s difficult to find complete uncut versions of the store security and cell phone cameras.”

    Except the few seconds of the policeman’s knee, my info come’s from what I hear. Since I haven’t examined the incident closely enough, the report about the gun was probably wrong.
    Global warming IS racist! So is the Covid 19. If the entire world is racist it must cancel itself out.

  51. Joy

    Well it already seems at least two of the four policemen will be found not guilty there’s any justice.
    CPR was also attempted by one of the rookies.
    So the system fails when the senior officer isn’t senior enough. Perhaps they’ve been recruiting officers at such a fast rate they’re not looking after standards.
    Kender would be horrified.

  52. Adrian Francis Cerny

    The Civil Rights Movement was Not about giving ‘Freedoms’ to a ‘Minority’ group (14%, Blacks).
    It was all about the ‘Majority’ (78%, AKA: The Civil Rights Coalition), that was made up of Women, Blacks, Jews, Catholics, etc. destroying the Freedoms and Political/Economic Powers of a minority group, (22%, AKA: Straight, White, Male, Protestants).
    Freedoms and Political/Economic Powers that got in the Majorities way of gaining vast Wealth, Special Powers and Special Privileges for themselves.
    Draconian Powers that had never before been seen on American soil.

    White People Never had the government backed ‘Right’ to Force a business to Hire him.
    To Force a business to Serve him.
    To Force a homeowner to sell him their Home.
    To Force a College to accept them!
    But ALL other people and races have this Special Power,
    this 5,000 black race riot imposed, ”Black Privilege’!

    Fun Note; The Civil Rights Law’s’ re-introduced Slavery back into American Society, as it Forced White People to serve Blacks, against their wills. Thus, destroying their Freedom of Choice, Freedom of Association, as well as the notion of private property. As being Forced to serve against your will, is the very definition of what ‘Slavery’ is all about.

    Blacks committed 5,000 race riots, 250,000 fires 1963-1973, and put the US Military into Race Mutiny during Vietnam and the Cold War, to ‘win’ those Civil Rights laws and with it, ‘win’ Black Supremacy over America.

    You must remember that Women’s Rights, Gay Rights, etc. etc. are all aspects of, or part of, the Civil Rights Laws passed during the 1960’s.
    Thus, Any ‘attack’ on the validity, or legality, of the Civil Rights Laws themselves would also be an Attack on ‘their’ Rights.
    IE: Those Special Powers, Special Privileges granted by the Government, that these groups use against their enemies, (AKA: straight, White, Male, Protestants) every day.
    So, for their own benefit, the majority of Americans MUST support Black Supremacy over America in order to ‘protect’ THEIR Special Powers and Special Privileges.
    Today, blacks have the vast majority of Americans as their ‘willing’ servants.
    Now ‘THAT’ is Karma!

    Adrian F. Cerny, Historian.

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