What Australian Bishops Taught Me During The Pandemic — Guest Post by Oz Catholic

What Australian Bishops Taught Me During The Pandemic — Guest Post by Oz Catholic

It has been an incredible last two years as our illusions of stability and normality have been ripped away by a never ending stream of decrees and enforcements in an attempt to destroy the basics of human society. However, the most interesting part of this time has been the modern revelation of the Church’s teaching from the Australian Church. Based on the Bishop’s actions I have learned the following:

1. Sacraments Don’t Matter

The last 2,000 years of Church teachings emphasised the importance of the Sacraments as essential tools helping us reach Heaven. The speed in which our churches were closed and all sacraments stopped did not indicate any hesitancy. I expected a little resistance but any priest that tried to innovate with solutions around the “rules” was shut down by their bishop. There are still parts of Australia where the most important first sacrament of Baptism is being denied to people. Why didn’t we set up a Mass or Eucharistic Procession in Bunnings or Coles? Apparently they were safer than our churches.

2. The End Justifies the Means

We used to believe that “You cannot do evil so that good may come of it”. Basically, it doesn’t matter what the end result is, you cannot do evil. But now it is OK to murder thousands of children, pulling them alive from a mother and cutting out the baby’s liver and kidney to develop and test vaccines. So long as it happened years ago, and the vaccine is forced on everyone, it is OK. Those old fools that prosecuted the Nazi scientists after World War Two in Nuremberg just didn’t understand modern science and morals.

3. The State is More Important than the Church

There used to be a principle of separation of Church and State. I now understand that this was a temporary measure to diminish the role of the Church until only the State mattered. With the willing participation of every Australian bishop in the suppression of the Mass and sacraments and the forcing of any Church related employees to get the jab or be dismissed from duties, the Church is now just an enforcement arm of the State.

A desperate parishioner asked her bishop, “Will you help me when I lose my job if I don’t get the jab?” The Bishop replied, “Sorry, if the jab was mandatory I would back you but as it is a voluntary decision I can’t help.”

4. Truth is Relative

There now is no difference when you hear a politician or bishop speak about this pandemic. They all speak from the same script. We had always understood that the Eighth Commandment “You shall not bear false witness” was a serious prohibition against telling lies or distorting the truth with weaselly words. But now we are told that the jab is not mandatory – even if the full force of the Church State is applied against any dissenters. Is it really a free choice if the consequences are loss of job, community, travel and ability to participate in community life? Some bishops will not allow sacraments or church attendance to those who decide not to get jabbed. But they still tell us, “The jab is not mandatory”.

5. The Physical is More Important than the Spiritual

We know that humans are an amazing mix of matter and spirit. That is why all sacraments are an outer sign of an inner reality as both sides must be fed. Yet now, the spiritual side can be ignored if there is a small physical risk to a portion of the community. The State Church obviously does not really believe in this mix of matter and spirit and act as if Christianity is only a fancy community services division of the State. Even those that have a risk of getting sick from the virus are denied any spiritual support through isolation and denial of sacraments – for their safety.

6. Personal Conscience is Not Important

The primacy of conscience was an important principle in Christian ethics. But now we understand it is subservient to the needs of the State Church. Even supposedly good bishops in Australia are forcing priests, seminarians, lay workers and even volunteers to get the jab or lose their jobs. Those wishing to refuse have excellent reasons for doing so, but the Church State has decreed otherwise and all must submit.

7. Charity is Doing What You Are Told

We have been told that we should go against our conscience and informed non-consent as an act of love for our neighbours. We are told to get a jab which will not stop us getting or transmitting the virus so that our vulnerable neighbours feel safer. One of the strengths of the Church is knowing that love is shown in many different ways. In the past it was understood that we can love our neighbours using each of our individual gifts and talents, tailored to both the giver and receiver of love. Now the only way to show love of neighbour is to get an experimental jab. Or else suffer the consequences. Lovingly.

8. Safety Over-rides Parish and Community Life

In the past it was understood the importance of community life. Communication occurs on many levels with the most effective communication in person, just like St Philip taught the Ethiopian chariot guy. Each time we get further from conversing in person whether through a video chat, telephone call or texting, communication diminishes. Also, when you are with another person you can sense whether they are feeling well or need help. Often you can help others in many ways in person that will be missed when you are remote. In the past, solitary isolation was considered a terrible form of punishment, but now it is recommended for everyone, especially people in retirement homes, isolated from family, friends and community “for their health”.

Now, even when permitted by the State Church to attend Mass, division is still required through the use of masks and “social distancing”. The power of a smile, handshake or hug is discouraged.

Summary Of What I Have Learned

It appears that the Church policy over the years to emphasise the “Sit up, Shut up, Pay up” method of catechesis has worked. The majority of the faithful have done as they are told and gotten the jab. The fact that they still have to wear masks, social distance and isolate if told they are exposed to a positive case does not seem to deter anyone. The old tales from the Martyrs of the Colosseum have been quietly erased from general knowledge and tales of heroism and standing for the Truth against all odds have been relegated to history. Considering all the current bishops of Australia have shown by their actions the above eight new modern principles, has Church teaching changed?

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  1. Shecky R

    gee, he/she sounds kinda bitter…

  2. Whitney

    Anti church. Bergoglio is not Pope. As the children at Fatima saw there are two Bishop in white in Rome, like you are looking in a mirror. Pray for us Our Lady of Fatima. Say the rosary.

  3. Teresa Berry

    Time for the catacombs. Maybe those abandoned opal digs might do in a pinch.

  4. imnobody00

    As a Catholic in Central America, I agree with all that. It is the same around the world. You forget something like:

    Covid is from Satan and masks, vaccines and alcohol are sacred. See:


    These are the fruits of the Vatican II church. I really feel disappointed and sad.

  5. Hagfish Bagpipe

    ”…has Church teaching changed?”

    The Church has shown that, as with all things of men, it is susceptible to corruption. The teachings of Jesus Christ never change. We are all Protestants, now.

  6. Whitney


    What? You should be delighted. Prophecy is coming true right before your eyes. Satanic powers are moving to get a One world government, the church has been infiltrated by by its enemies at the highest levels. Christ never promised us wealth and plenty in this world, He actually said that was a hindrance to salvation, well we’re losing the hindrance. And everything that is happening now you were chosen to be here. Amazing.

  7. Dr. Weezil

    Whitney, please don’t imply that The Rat is any more the Pope than Our Friend George.

    But to O.C., this IS Vatican II. None of this is a surprise to traditionalists.

  8. Rudolph Harrier

    I honestly didn’t know if my diocese had a continuing dispensation for the Sunday obligation or not until I dug into it. Apparently it expired in July 2021, not that this was communicated by any of the local priests.

    It was also much easier finding a letter from the diocese saying “priests should not help anyone get a religious exemption from forced vaccination” than to find information clarifying the Sunday obligation.

  9. John C

    That the Sacraments no longer matter to the bishops is a direct consequence of the Council’s tacit rejection of Aquinas’ doctrine on sacramental realism. Instead of emphasizing the necessity of proper disposition for receiving sacramental grace, all importance was placed on making the rites relevant to the men of modern times. For instance, going to Confession has become, primarily, an opportunity to get rid of “psychological baggage,” with restoration to the state of grace being incidental. The concoction of a new mass is an extreme example of this. The fact that the German bishops would even mention the possibility of a future without priests goes to show that, with certainty, there will be (if there isn’t already) a schism with the true Faith. As far as the papacy is concerned, the 1983 Code of Canon Law concerning papal succession, along with its companion legislation, “Universi Dominici Gregis,” explicitly lay out the conditions that could invalidate a papal election. It strikes me a the equivalent of “covid censorship” for Catholics to essentially excommunicate anyone who would raise the possibility that there could be problems with the second pontificate after the new rules took effect. We are, after all, speaking of an office that is bestowed by Christ Himself, directly upon the man who has accepted election. The fact that no one even wants to discuss it makes me believe that those in power are very fearful of what an honest investigation could bring. They certainly don’t care that I might be sinning in having questions, because they don’t care about sin.

  10. Ann Cherry

    Oz Catholic, thank you for this post. Instead of posting my own comment, I’ve gotten permission to post a comment from a good friend who also reads Briggs, and I mostly share her sentiments:

    [In re: imnobody00’s link to Adam Piggot’s blog] “Poor Adam Piggott, who doesn’t think women should have the right to vote, needs to get his head out of his piggs ass. Oops, I meant to say he needs our prayers.

    “Yes, our Church is crumbling in some parts but it is being rebuilt in other areas, just like our culture and society. It’s difficult to see the renewal, with all the dust, but it is revealed occasionally.

    “Jesus I Trust in You.
    We were created for this time. And I believe I will see the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart in my lifetime.”

    I will add, that things are much darker in Australia (and Europe) than they are here (yet), and that must certainly contribute to the rather pessimistic outlook. I often share that outlook myself, which is why I keep more holy souls, like my friend whose thoughts I shared here, close to my heart. God bless.

  11. Jerry

    American Bishops taught me the same thing, not to mention the Pope. One of the biggest conflicts I have as a Catholic is the Pope and the Bishops. Not all the Bishops, but a very significant and vocal number.

    Many of my Protestant friends ask me what deal is with the Pope, and I have very little to answer, except that he is a man and a sinner – and that the Truth is the Church, not the Pope.

    Which is all another way of saying that the Pope does very little to save souls.

  12. c matt

    Well, Benedict has a better claim than Jorge to claim the mantle

  13. Rob

    We (including the ordained) are often asked to choose between God and man. It’s not a one-time question, it is asked of us multiple times through our lives through tests of faith like what we are living through now. The current Pope and many bishops have chosen man over God. As Christians of faith we are to forgive their sins, we are also bound by our faith to recognize such sin and admit it as such – not rationalize it away as a kind of virtue.

  14. Joey Zamboni

    From the Chosen:

    It’s not our job to feed the 5000…

    We are to just bring the loaves & fish…

    Heb. 10: – 24-And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love & good deeds, 25-Not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another – and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

    The *Church* is not a building, it’s the Holy Spirit within us…

  15. Dennis

    It all starts with the rot at the top and comes down to NWO/Great Reset cuckery and lack of proper Catholic leadership from Antipope Frankie.

    Word is he plans to implement more stringent crackdowns on the TLM as well, far more harshly than even the terms of Traditionis Custodes called for – clearly that was just his first shot across the bow in a war he intends to provoke with, I believe, the intention of fomenting schism.

    Pray God rids us soon of this pernicious man who is doing his utmost to lead the Church to ruin.

  16. Uncle Mike

    The ugly rise of nutball Fascism in Oz cannot be blamed on a weak, subservient church. Not to forgive the Bishops for their cowardice, or the Pope for his Marxism, but the spine of all Australians, religious or not, has been missing. The same is true here in the US, though to a somewhat lesser degree.

  17. C-Marie

    The genuine Church that Jesus Christ founded as God our Father told Him to do, when Jesus said”

    “13And Jesus came into the quarters of Cesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? 14But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? 16Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.” Matthew 16.

    is not crumbling nor falling apart. It was founded upon the Rock, Our Lord Jesus Christ Who will never forsake His Church, though many of His forsake Him.

    What is happening is that the Church System of Man, which has been within Christ’s Church from the beginning … read Paul, Peter, Revelation ….. has now been allowed, due to abundant sin, to manifest in shocking abundance. God is allowing all of this to move His own and those who will be His, to call upon Him for graces of repentance and helps.

    All will never be as it was, though it may seem so at times. Stay close in Jesus Christ. Come to know God our Father in the fullness of His loving and fathering us. Be led and guided by the Holy Spirit, every day.

    God bless, C-Marie

  18. swordfishtrombone

    It doesn’t sound like Oz Catholic has learned anything true or useful.

    We used to believe that “You cannot do evil so that good may come of it”. Basically, it doesn’t matter what the end result is, you cannot do evil.

    If the Catholic Church genuinely believes that no Good justifies any Evil, then shouldn’t it abolish itself to end the evil of child abuse by its own priests? In any case, isn’t the idea that God allows Evil in order to bring about a greater Good one of the church’s main arguments against the Problem Of Evil?

    But now it is OK to murder thousands of children, pulling them alive from a mother and cutting out the baby’s liver and kidney to develop and test vaccines.

    Not one word of this is accurate. Foetuses aren’t children. Cell lines used in the development of COVID-19 vaccines originated from only two abortions dating back to the sixties and seventies. Those cell lines have been replicated and modified since then, and are not the original cells. In addition, THOSE ABORTIONS HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED. Not using those cell lines now isn’t going to bring the foetuses back, or benefit them in any way, so this is really just useless virtue signalling, like the Left toppling statues.

    Those old fools that prosecuted the Nazi scientists after World War Two in Nuremberg just didn’t understand modern science and morals.

    It’s more like Oz Catholic doesn’t understand anything. The Nuremberg trials happened straight after the war, not 50 years later, but in any case, the two situations are completely different. It would be a more apt analogy to argue that NASA shouldn’t use rockets today because Wernher von Braun helped to develop them 70 years ago. But how would that help those killed in WWII?

  19. Hagfish Bagpipe

    C-Marie: ”All will never be as it was, though it may seem so at times. Stay close in Jesus Christ. Come to know God our Father in the fullness of His loving and fathering us. Be led and guided by the Holy Spirit, every day.”

    A C-Marie comment is as a patch of blue opening in a stormy sky. A radiant light bathes all in golden glow, the musical words are sung by a boy treble, backed by the Robert Shaw singers and a harp, a harpsichord, and a flute. The music ends, a cloud swallows the blue, and gloom puffs out its chest once again. But we don’t mind as the song is in our hearts and that puts a spring in our step and a smile on our face. Lovely day. Thanks C-Marie.

  20. Dennis

    So glad the village atheist stopped by to try to give us lessons in theology, ecclesiology, and etymology.

    Where would we be without such enlightenment?

    Typical midwit, as well, in that he apparently thinks simply calling something a “fetus” somehow means it’s not a human person, and therefore can be murdered with impunity. “Fetus” is merely one stage in the continuous development of a human person from fertilized ovum to adulthood. The nature of the thing never changes, just different terms for stages along the way.

  21. Ann Cherry

    Hagfish Bagpipe, I second your wonderful comment here. I saved part of a comment by C-Marie from the three weeks ago, on the Sunday Aquinas post:

    “Faith, Hope, and Love. Just in the last few days I looked up the word Hope and found that its archaic meaning is absolute trust, absolute confidence …. rather than the common understanding of “…hope it happens, but it might not …” So now I understand much better, Faith, Hope, and Love …. Faith, Hope (absolute trust), and Love.”

    It clarified my understanding of the theological gift of “Hope” and seems applicable here, too. Thank you C-Marie! God bless.

  22. Bobcat

    “We know that humans are an amazing mix of matter and spirit. That is why all sacraments are an outer sign of an inner reality as both sides must be fed. Yet now, the spiritual side can be ignored if there is a small physical risk to a portion of the community.”

    Agreed. And if some of these people realized that there’s an afterlife and that the self never dies then there wouldn’t be too much of a concern about dying. But then again, much of the overreaction to coronavirus is due to governments trying to gain unjustified control over people and it’s not really about health.

    A good but sad post there Oz Catholic. I wish you the best.

  23. Dcmason

    Man. Briggs doesn’t pull a lot of trolls, but the ones he does are quality. Such an intense hatred of humanity. And dumb.

  24. swordfishtrombone


    If the nature of people doesn’t change with age, how come it’s okay to let old people die from COVID-19? The fact is, foetuses, babies, children, adults, and dead bodies are treated differently by us because they are different, and that’s why they have different names. Pointing out that foetuses aren’t children isn’t arguing for abortion, it’s correcting one of many false claims made by OC.

  25. Dennis

    Ah yes, because there is no moral difference between the intentional murder of unborn innocents and deaths in old age due to the ravages of time and various illnesses (in some of which one of the co-morbidities may be Covid). This doesn’t even rise to the level of midwit-tier reasoning!

    And if anyone is “letting” the elderly or others die from Covid, it’s people of your ilk who’ve helped systematically suppress effective early treatment and prophylaxis. Your dangerous, ineffective, and leaky jabs will kill more elderly than Covid alone ever did.

  26. Mann Friedmann

    This is persecution of healthy, sane individuals, for $$.
    We are all Palestinians, now.

    Right Shecky?

  27. swordfishtrombone


    Where do you get any “hatred of humanity” from in my comment? The only things I’m hating are OC’s misinformation, and the Catholic Church’s child abuse.

  28. swordfishtrombone


    Changing your argument again, to the point where you contradict your previous position: Foetuses and old people were of the same nature before, now there’s a moral difference between them. Aren’t we all equal under God? And vaccination isn’t killing people, you stupid ‘king moron.

  29. Briggs

    All, a comment from Ann, who cannot post:

    At fourteen weeks, a little baby in the womb (fetus is latin for baby) weighs six ounces, and is nine inches long. He has fingernails, eyelashes, and his own unique fingerprints that will remain the same until he dies. His taste buds are working, although he is nourished through the umbilical cord. His sense of hearing is present at fourteen weeks. After this point, there are no further major developments; the baby is well-formed, internally and externally. All he needs now is time to gain weight and grow stronger. What a miracle he is!

  30. Dcmason


    What? You’re the troll?

    Dang, dude. I didn’t see this coming. Sorry.


  31. Dennis

    Such utter intellectual and moral obtuseness. Can only be deliberate, as part of some pointless trollery. Par for the course from Swordfish.

    I am not changing any argument. Yes, they are of the same nature. All partake of the same human nature, and all are human persons (even obtuse fools like you!). There is indeed no moral difference in terms of human worth as human being between an adult and infant in the womb when it comes to deliberate murder of either (indeed, a child in the womb is the most innocent creature of all).

    You are the one who came up with the absurd claim that old people dying of various things (“letting” in your loaded term, which applies to nothing anyone is doing, save those – like you – who wish to deny and suppress early treatment and prophylaxis of Covid), as we all will die some day, is no different morally than willfully murdering babies in the womb. There is, in fact, every moral difference in the world between natural death from old age or illness and deliberate murder. If you don’t get that, you are thicker than I thought.

    “And vaccination isn’t killing people, you stupid ‘king moron.”

    Lol. Keep on lying about the dangerous, worthless jabs you support like the good Regime Narrative lapdog you are. Sit, Swordy, sit…good doggie! Here’s a soy treat for you!

  32. Dennis

    Ann, on the other hand, gets it. Moral clarity and right Reason in accordance with Divine and Natural Law – something sorely lacking on the Left.

  33. Joy

    Also, remember, the antipathy, now morphed into outright venom and vile talk, predated the vaccine.
    So if they can’t even get to the truth about masks wearing and differentiate where the controversy really lies? ventilators? Death numbers? and on and on, vaccines are just one more on the list.
    I wonder how many here actually believe that the vaccine is killing people. Very few, at a guess.
    There’s just a lot of accretion of multiple views and multiple takes on the matter but the one thing in common is:

    “We hate government”. as if that makes them unusual.
    Hatred isn’t enough to carry the day

  34. Dennis

    “ truth about masks…”

    The only “truth” about masks, is that they don’t do anything to stop the spread of viruses, and are pointless tyrannical theatre. Thankfully, most where I am now ignore, even when there are signs proclaiming them to be required.

    That the vaccines are killing people at rates far above what would have historically been grounds for immediate halt to prior jabs (such as swine flu in 1976) is incontrovertible (and likely vastly understated, given the whitewashing campaign going on in govt, media, health care industry. And even in “normal” times VAERS only catches a fraction of adverse events and deaths. And even still, there are more deaths for the Covid jabs than all other jabs combined since VAERS began). The jab fanatics are the ones promoting a death cult, denying reality, and “letting” people die needlessly.

  35. Joy

    You are wrong about the use of masks in the limitation of the spread of the disease. Just as I told you last year.
    Not forgetting the point which you always enjoy missing about properly defining terms: *
    They have been shown to slow the spread in a variety of non clinical settings. They are also not one kind of thing “masks”….

    but then you’e talking to someone who’s used them at work. You haven’t! You’ve read a few carefully cherry picked pieces of information and not so carefully worded arguments against their use which have always been more like petulance than anything resembling science audit.
    *Your country never needed you to wear a mask to achieve the goal of collective mask wearing. Same for vaccination. Ones of people aren’t going to make a difference in slowing spread.

    ‘slowing’ versus ‘stopping’…yet another example of the mixing of terms

  36. Dennis

    “You are wrong about the use of masks in the limitation of the spread of the disease.”

    No, I am not. Copious resources on the uselessness of generalized public mask wearing in slowing or preventing the spread of viruses are available here at Briggs’ site, and elsewhere, and have been rehashed many times.

    You and the rest of the mask cultists simply remain inveterate liars and refuse to listen to real science rather than politicized The Science. Plus ça change…same old BS claims on repeat 22 months later…it’s like Groundhog Day in December – I’d make greater headway talking to a brick wall.

  37. Joy

    “quoted at briggs’ site”
    Yu mean like the imorant new paper” about the effects of masks?
    How about that one?
    As for liars, no, I’m not a liar, you’re just. a believer in anything which suits your bias. You’re also rude about the characters of others who you don’t know.
    Define you terms when you speak about masks and mask wearing. There’s a lot of controversy about it over a long time. I recall it from sars 1. That was also much harder to catch. More deadly, less infectious.
    One of the things which is taken full advantage of, in discussions, is the fact that measuring outside of a lab is not an easy thing to pull off. There are variables in real world scenarios which over-ride masks and which have a bearing on spread. Hand washing and eye rubbing, to name two. Only skeptics have a problem with the complexity of the problem at hand. So a broad brush “masks don’t work” is just not a scientifically accurate thing to say. Yet it’s tolerated, for some reason.
    We have discussed this before, and you’re quick to switch to the freedom and mandate argument. As did Briggs, but you’ve forgotten. So masking prevents the spread of virus but some don’t think it important enough, or a legitimate enough reason to mandate them. That’s the truth. They slow spread, along with other measures, when added together in large numbers.
    See the link:
    “Important new Paper” on top right search
    It was “rabbit holed” Wonder Why?

  38. Dennis

    I mean the countless studies that are available – links discussed here many times, and many other sites (knock yourself out with Google search – though I wouldn’t be surprised if some have been scrubbed since they don’t uphold the new Narrative) in many peer-reviewed journals of double blind control groups studies (the “gold standard” of The Science midwits should love), both before and after covid (though the Danish study is the only proper one I’m aware of post-covid; the rest are propaganda “studies” rushed out for the express purpose of buttressing the new Narrative – bad science used as cover for insane politics). Even the likes of Fauci, US Surgeon General, and the WHO were initially against generalized public muzzling until they got the memo that not muzzling means you might be a Trumper playing for the wrong team. The muzzles were adopted as a political badge, pure theatre – nothing to do with actual public health or efficacy. It really is that simple – they don’t work, however much you bleat about them.

    “You’re also rude about the characters of others who you don’t know.”

    Only toward those rude and dismissive and insulting to me, such as Swordfish, or when you persist in claiming for the umpteenth time that “hurr durr, masks work” after 22 months of madness and evidence to the contrary, or when you pretend mounting evidence worldwide doesn’t demonstrate complete vax failure (and even then, out of chivalry, I reserve my most vituperative rhetoric and insults for the men amongst the Regime Narrative Covid Cultists, like SFT. The worst I’ve said about you is that you lie about masks and vax efficacy – which is, quite simply, true).

  39. Joy

    You don’t have cart blanche to be rude because someone says something that you don’t like. It happens to be the case that at no stage has Briggs or you or anyone shown that masks “don’t’ work”.

    That’s the problem.
    I’ve been waiting, like when viewing Alien programmes or other paranormal documentaries. Nothing ever happens. You appear to think I’ve always disagreed with Briggs. Quite the opposite. I used to take everything as a given to be true.
    Re Covid 19: Where he’s right it’s been said before, by those he is now calling his enemies, presumably. Same for much of what you claim as original to your view. People are just not listening to what’s really being said or claimed, preferring to present a false narrative that’s never been said, in some instances. That’s where the charge of lying comes from. Once is okay, repetition once corrected is lying.

    You, and others like you, are falling into the trap of lumping everything and everybody together.
    It’s what I meant by accretion of various viewpoints and notions, however mad or unjustified, into one blob called skepticism.
    Add to that the fact that people daren’t really say what they. think on the internet but put up a front, it stops looking like audit and just seems like ‘old disagreeables’ raging against the machine.
    I tried months ago to get you to the points raised and claimed by our experts at a contemporary time. They were at odds with your claims. You refused to look and chose the lumping in with fauci method of reasoning instead. I believe I gave you several opportunities to look at small points of contention which were easily sorted out. No, to no avail, and it’s got more and more entangled ever since.

  40. Dennis

    “ It happens to be the case that at no stage has Briggs or you or anyone shown that masks “don’t’ work…That’s the problem.”

    It’s been demonstrated numerous times in the numerous studies (most pre-Covid, thus untainted by Covid politics) you mask cultists simply ignore now. Aside from scientific mask studies, it is clear from real world usage and comparative data over the past 22 months that high rates of public masking result in no discernible improvement in covid-related outcomes. In point of fact however, the burden of proof is on those who would impose these tyrannical mandates on society to prove they not only “work,” but also that they do not result in more harm than whatever little good it is claimed they may do; and neither of those burdens has been met by the mask (or vax mandate) cultists…22 months, and waiting…

    “You appear to think I’ve always disagreed with Briggs…”

    irrelevant; and besides, I’ve never given a moment’s thought to whether, or for how long you’ve either agreed or disagreed with Briggs about anything. Couldn’t care less. I stick to commenting on what you say on the topics at hand.

    “You don’t have cart blanche to be rude because someone says something that you don’t like.”

    You’re the one who keeps accusing me of rudeness (not the first time; you seem, to take disagreement for rudeness itself, though it seems you have a problem in general with certain salty aspects of male banter and rhetorical insults among some of us – Even then it’s mainly SFT – an insufferable, obtuse midwit and anti-Catholic bigot – whom I can’t abide); I simply said I pay back in kind what I get from certain quarters. In any case, I really don’t care what you think, as the only one whose opinion matters vis-a-vis commenters is Briggs, since it’s his blog. If he objects to my tone or anything I say and tells me to reign something in, ok…that’s his right…but not yours (frankly I don’t think I’ve ever gone overboard into anything truly objectionable beyond typical male banter mentioned above. And certainly I’ve never ventured into any “Dan Ayckroyd-to-Jane Curtain”-tier insults toward any women here – even you when in your most annoying mode 🙂 ).

  41. Joy

    Dennis, Well, aren’t you a goodie two shoes?
    (not convinced)

    Rudeness, yes you have been. That you haven’t been as disgraceful as some, is not the point. On an unmoderated site, the standards can go where they like. They have. Bias can run full bore, and it does…as the loudest and nastiest have their way, while others walk away or say nothing.
    Regarding your claims of demonstration of the science.
    What I’ve seen is a string of tweets and newspaper articles, even at least one fake paper, graphs picked at random (at opportune moments), masquerading as science audit. So it seems that confirmation bias is a big problem here, too. That’s often the way with conspiracy theorists.
    I never asked you to care what I think I pointed out what your responses were like early in this epidemic, and now, given information that shows you to be wrong (even on clear but peripheral points of fact to the politics). See the previous comment. Rudeness of others or you, are not my problem of course. It doesn’t mean it won’t bring the site into disrepute.

    That is a shame, big shame, for Briggs as much as anybody else, it’s his blog, but we all pay to keep it propped up with comments if not directly? There have been many times where readers other than myself have deserved a bit more respect and gratitude than they are afforded. That’s also a shame, just a sing of character.
    Whether you care is also irrelevant. Don’t forget, also, that without those comments which oppose the prevailing cult view on here, you would have no foil against which to act? It’s obvious that so many use the site for very different reasons. Not all see it as a message board for off topic covid related factoid sharing and self congratulation!
    Regarding Swordfish.
    He is not a mid wit. That’s why you have a problem with him.
    He is not forced to like Catholics any more than you’re forced to like atheists or any other chosen group. “biggot”. That’s a laugh. Coming from the Uk Im going to guess that the kind of Catholic he usually meets is of a rather different kind than those who have taken to crusading on line. On that subject, even John b() thinks I’m vile about catholics. Show what he knows, just more bias and projection.

  42. swordfishtrombone


    You’re so irrational that you didn’t even notice that my argument was in favour of fetal cell lines being used in the development of COVID-19 vaccines (a position supported by the Catholic Church, BTW), and against the many lies in OC’s article, not any argument in favour of abortion as such.

  43. Joy

    Just one concession, in your favour.
    You did continue the wonky graph investigation to the end, which was good of you.
    (What the heck the thing was supposed to be showing is another story. It wasn’t straight forwardly presented, given its source. )

  44. swordfishtrombone

    Ann Cherry,

    A question for you: do the souls of aborted “babies” go to heaven? As most people worldwide aren’t Catholics, that means that the majority of aborted babies would have been brought up in the “wrong” religion and gone to hell. Just a thought.

  45. David Mason

    Just goes to show that not all thoughts are worth having. Or sharing.

  46. Dennis

    “Hurr durr…No one’s dying of the vaccines!” cry the midwits in unison.

    “They can’t explain why the vaccinated are more likely to get COVID and die: They can only offer hand-waving arguments with no actual data to support it.” https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/nobody-can-explain-why-the-vaccinated.

    “…you didn’t even notice that my argument was in favour of fetal cell lines being used in the development of COVID-19 vaccines…”

    Of course I’m aware you support the using aborted babies as raw material for The Science. It wasn’t necessary to highlight that fact as part of my response above. It’s a quite obvious conclusion from your atheist, materialist worldview. That anti-pope Bergoglio – a sinister man deeply in the tank for the NWO/Great Reset agenda – has given a poorly reasoned endorsement (one which is not binding ex cathedra) of the vaccines from the standpoint of his shallow understanding of moral theology matters not a whit.

  47. Dennis

    The traditional teaching on the fate of unbaptized infants (the religion of the parents is ultimately immaterial – SFT’s “would have been brought up…” is a typical red herring), is that they would go to Limbo.

    Limbo, however, has always been a theological proposition which, while consistently endorsed by numerous Popes, Saints, and theologians throughout the centuries, has never been a Dogma.

    The present state of the Church’s thinking on the matter is explained in this 2007 document commissioned and endorsed by Pope Benedict XVI, “The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized”: https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

  48. Joy

    Your first line at 11:40 AM makes my point, you spent a good deal of time denying.
    Saying you don’t insult people, then doing so.
    “killing people”
    Do you mean like Aspirin is “killing people”
    Or non steroid al anti inflammatories? or other prescription medicine?
    the numbers of adverse reactions following the vaccine in this country were so small that the panel looking at the issue were able to name each case individually in ones and less than tens. They also explained that it was not even established BUT ASSUMED, for safety sake that they were due to vaccination. The analysis has moved on from there. That was the AZ vaccine. Pfizer was causing allergic reactions anaphylaxis and ongoing atopic type symptoms in some patients.

  49. Joy

    The latter is true, incidentally of all vaccines and infusions of some kinds.

  50. Dennis

    “Your first line at 11:40 AM makes my point…”

    No, it doesn’t. I’ve lost patience with the Pushers of these dangerous, ineffective jabs, and the continued madness they seek to impose on the world in the name of Covid (see the inanity surrounding the “Omicron” scariant)…so yeah, I may use some harsh language at times. That’s the least the Covid Muzzle and Vax Cultists deserve.

  51. Joy

    They aren’t dangerous or ineffective.
    What do you mean by dangerous or ineffective? What kind of proportion do you call dangerous? All vaccines and many injections or infusions are associated with some risk. I’m surprised there are no cases of air embolism, given the number of newly trained operators administering the jabs.
    Earlier you admitted that they were never intended to prevent Covid 19 Yes?
    Or did I have that wrong? Some have not even conceded that point.
    They are clearly effective when you look at the Uk data.
    They are not dangerous, unless you’re going to include thee use of all manner of over the counter or prescription medicines which are also considered “safe”.

    Rock climbing is dangerous. Skiing is dangerous. crossing the road without looking is dangerous. These vaccines are not. The fear is on the side of those who don’t want a vaccine. That’s their call, just as it was for K Lamb. He said the illness was the most painful thing he had ever had. I know of several who had Covid and who have said it wasn’t that bad. They weren’t hospitalised. People know the numbers now regarding the risks of mortality for a given individual. If they don’t, they’re unusual. K Lamb looked very well in the picture, a bit portly and of a certain age which is likely to have complications with the infection.

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