So the jury convicted Chauvin of both murder and manslaughter of the same man. He was found guilty of two murder counts, not just one, and one manslaughter. How is this possible? I ask in ignorance. Some lawyers who read this blog might enlighten us.1
The realpolitik answer is encapsulated in Maxine Waters, that hideous race-baiting evil grifting greedy mediocrity, who promised violence if the jury did not bring a guilty verdict. Waters, that is, swore to unleash a wave of angry of-colors to teach the jury a lesson.
It wouldn’t have been hard to find the jurors. The enemies of the people at the Minneapolis Star-Tribune published their information.
Biden, waking from his slumbers, “prayed” for a guilty verdict. In his favor, he likely didn’t know what the flap was about. He was just mouthing the words put in front of him. Still, Chauvin could not have expected justice when the entire elite and rulers were against him.
BLM Founder Reminds Everyone Justice Won't Fully Be Served Until She Can Buy A 5th House https://t.co/ryRVF5f4rn
— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) April 20, 2021
Immediately after, the enemies of the people began weighing in. On CBS news radio, a female was saying “officials” were “worried outside agitators” might come in because of the verdict….and? She never finished the sentence. “And act like blacks during riot season” maybe?
She also said the verdict had to be guilty, given the video. She meant the video touted everywhere in the press. And not the other video showing Chauvin had his knee on St Floyd’s back and not neck.
There’s little point rehearsing the evidence. But if you want an excellent just-before-the-verdict take, read “Trial Update: Can Chauvin Find an Irrational Juror?”
There was clearly sufficient evidence for reasonable doubt. But what does evidence matter any more? Anywhere? What matters is power and until the dissident right learns this lesson things will only get worse.
The pandering did not stop with the verdict. And will not stop.
Justice has been served. NYPD will be out tonight to ensure that peaceful demonstrations have the ability to proceed safely.
— Commissioner Shea (@NYPDShea) April 20, 2021
He didn’t say whether free matches and maps to sneakers stores would be handed out as a convenience for the mostly peaceful protesters.
St George “Lifelong Thug” Floyd “sacrificed” his life, said this prominent drunkard:
Speaker Pelosi: "Thank you George Floyd for sacrificing your life for justice … Because of you and because of thousands, millions of people around the world who came out for justice, your name will always be synonymous with justice."pic.twitter.com/JfapSsKdtX
— The Recount (@therecount) April 20, 2021
Elsewhere, the rulers’ mutaween, the religious police known as BLM, was out threatening trucks, shouting “F*** the National Guards”, and generally behaving as thugs behave.
Pandering, i.e. appeasement, never works. It always makes things worse. Who doesn’t know this? Yet it doesn’t mean the debased are not going to stick with it. They are. And will ramp it up. The enemies of the people at MSNBC are already saying the unjust verdict is “not enough.” Even lynching Chauvin would not be enough.
Debased entertainment firms—surely they will all follow suit: post others in the comments—at the NBA “praised” the verdict. And this:
Within minutes of the Derek Chauvin trial verdict, an angry mob has gathered in Columbus, Ohio to scream threats and profanity at police and announce "We're sick of bein' peaceful!" after an officer-involved shooting.https://t.co/NGv0RWesJA
— National File (@NationalFile) April 20, 2021
Why will they all boast of their wokeness? Some because they hope sacrificing Chauvin will appease the Race god and prevent further violence.
But mostly because those on the left sees how piety performances gets them ahead. They don’t care about the long-term and societal consequences of their dishonesty. They care only about their selves, and how they will immediately benefit. We will talk more about our leftward spiral toward a bloody singularity later.
The good news, if any, is that crime stats are about to nosedive in all locales with large black populations. Except killings. I do not jest.
It isn’t an official crime if it isn’t written down. What cop wants to risk his and his family’s life to arrest some lowlife when he is the one society thinks is guilty of the “real” crime?
The best and safest thing you can do is stay away from all blacks in the very sort of situations you don’t need me to tell you about. If you are assaulted by a “teen”, you will be charged with hurting the “teen’s” fist. You will be called a racist. You will be hounded by the enemies of the people, and even by your own government.
They wanted the separation, which none of us called for, or even wanted. Let them have it.
Do not give your money to people that hate you. Your library has thousands of free books. You do not need to pay for entertainment and feed that beast the seeks to devour you.
The lawyers say they will appeal, and God bless them. But there is no reason, no reason at all, to trust our government to do the right thing anymore. The enemies of the people are, even now, looking up the names and addresses of appeals judges to publish as a helpful guide to Black Larcenous Marauders.
Chauvin is a goner: pray for him. Pray you’re not next.
New York: #BLM protesters tell white people dining outside to “get the f— out of New York” & that their white-owned taquerias aren’t welcome. The crowd chant along. pic.twitter.com/E8D7B2rkQ8
— Andy Ngô (@MrAndyNgo) April 21, 2021
SCOOP: The day after the Chauvin verdict, Philadelphia Public Schools teaches kindergarteners that "George Floyd was killed by a police officer" and that America is built on a "pyramid of hate" culminating in "genocide."
Here are the exclusive leaked documents.?
— Christopher F. Rufo ?? (@realchrisrufo) April 21, 2021
1I understand he will be charged with the most serious of the crimes, and not also the others. But it is an indication the jury did not take their oaths seriously by convicting him of contradictory crimes.
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So awful. So sad.
The more I reflect on this situation, the more angry I become that this thug is being treated as some kind of symbol of virtue while a man just doing his job to serve and protect has been sacrificed for…. what?
We are no longer a civilized society.
What I don’t understand is the judge in this case. It’s as if he wanted a guilty verdict that would be overturned on appeal. Like having your cake and eating it too.
If one criminal can get three funerals, then a law enforcement officer responsible for one death can be found guilty three times. QED. You bigot.
Can anyone see a parallel to Jerusalem 2000 years ago?
Anything is possible when there IS NO LAW. You can convict a squirrel of armed robbery in America today.
Democrats know all about outside agitators. Guess Soros didn’t want to pay them for this “victory”.
Evidence will only matter when we MAKE IT MATTER. And trust me, the cowards of America will not go there. This could be ended in 2 weeks or less if the stupid, useless police would GO HOME AND STAY HOME. But all evidence says they like having things thrown at them and dying. I cannot emphasize enough THIS IS THE AMERICA PEOPLE WANT. All this complaining is irrelevant. PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS TO END. Look at the evidence, Briggs, which you CONVENIENTLY IGNORE WHEN YOU DON’T LIKE IT.
No, pandering never works, but people love being kicked, beaten and abused, and pandering leads there. Get it through your head: THIS IS WHAT AMERICA IS AND WANTS. THIS IS YOUR LOSER COUNTRY AND YOU WILL NEVER DO WHAT IT TAKES TO GET IT BACK. EVER. B*tch all you like. YOU LOSE. YOU LOST. IT’S OVER.
God is NOT going to protect people who damned the country to hell. HE at least sees there is free will and America chose Hell.
Not sad, JR. IT’S WHAT AMERICANS CHOSE and WANT. Stop pretending it’s sad.
DAV: PELOSI IS WHAT AMERICANS WANT. THIS IS WHO AMERICANS ARE. Why can’t anyone admit WE FREAKING CHOSE THIS AND MAN UP?????
And no more network TV. D*mn jerks pulled the new shows due to the trial. They can go straight to Hell where they belong. I have had it with virtue-signaling crap that the stupid, demon-worshipping Americans will continue to cowardly support. I am saving tons of money not shopping, not buying anything I don’t need. I have no expenses like a new car (hell will freeze before I spend money on something that expensive and evil), no mortgage payments, nothing. I buy nothing new unless the old one breaks. I WILL NEVER SUPPORT THE COMMIES even if everyone else finds virtue-signaling and greed the way to go.
As to the conviction On All Counts of Officer Chauvin – my brief synopsis (based on my qualifications in law) is as follows:
The State of Minnesota brought (3) separate charges which were (to wit) :
(1) 2nd Degree Manslaughter;
(2) 2nd Degree Murder;
(3) 3rd Degree Murder.
Murder being defined as: ||an unlawful taking of human life with malice aforethought||
Manslaughter being defined as: ||an unlawful taking of human life||
::As The Devil is always in-the-details – we are now entering downtown Devil Ville (Lawyer Land County):
::2nd Degree Manslaughter is an unlawful taking of human life where the only required proof of “intent” is tantamount to “negligence”. The intent (Latin: mens reas) required is a General Intent (intent to do something) rather than a Specific Intent (intent to bring about some consequence).
::2nd Degree Murder is better known under the rubric Felony Murder. Essentially Felony Murder rules normally apply only in instances where an underlying felony crime results in a death (e.g. as when a lawbreaker engages in a home burglary and the targeted homeowner falls down his stairs breaking his neck in an attempt to roust the interloper).
::3rd Degree Murder is better known under the rubric Depraved Heart Murder. Essentially this charge applies to instances where a death results as a consequence of behavior so inherently risky that ANY consequential deaths are presumed to have been both knowable and “known as a probable outcome” to the perpetrator (e.g. exploding sticks of dynamite in a metal trash can in a public parking lot as a way of warding off the pain of boredom symptomatic of long-term juvenile delinquency).
The principal LEGAL controversy over these 3 separate charges concerns (2nd Degree Murder). Minnesota has an unusual statute (called a Merger Statute) under which an individual who is found to have committed a THIRD DEGREE ASSAULT – can be “co-charged” with 2ND DEGREE MURDER. So the crime of THIRD DEGREE ASSAULT blossoms into 2ND DEGREE MURDER under something called STRICT LIABILITY DOCTRINE. It is very bizarre law – which applies in Minnesota and just a very few other jurisprudential backwaters. This kind of Merger Statute is generally considered unenlightened jurisprudence (or, more plainly, bullshit law).
Both MURDER charges were leveled by THE STATE to slake mob blood thirst. These charges were determined to be necessary as POLITICAL OPTICS by those in power. The MANSLAUGHTER charge however was proper and legitimate – and the verdict was supported by the evidence as presented to the Jury. Like it or not – and I don’t – but it is what it is. Chauvin got a FAIR TRIAL and had an outstanding Defense Counsel representing him.
Officer Chauvin will serve a minimum of 10 years sentence.
His conviction appeal – although on some sound grounds -will ultimately flop.
Prior to the TRIAL Chauvin offered to plead guilty to Manslaughter (in the 2nd) in exchange for a 10 year sentence CAP.
The Prosecution declined the plea offer and insisted on TRIAL.
@Sheri: PELOSI IS WHAT AMERICANS WANT. THIS IS WHO AMERICANS ARE. Why can’t anyone admit WE FREAKING CHOSE THIS AND MAN UP?????
Well, I didn’t choose Pelosi but, yes, many did.
@Jan Van Betsuni: Chauvin got a FAIR TRIAL and had an outstanding Defense Counsel representing him.
No he didn’t get a fair trial. Candace Owens says it best:
Minneapolis has a police problem. Dating back to the 1920’s-1930’s. They were Chicago North as far as bootlegging was concerned and when things got too hot in Chicago, the gangsters would lay low in Minneapolis/St Paul until things cooled down with the tacit approval of the police. Now that they’ve paid out $27 million to the Floyd family and another $20 million to the family of the lady the Somali cop killed, “Defund the police” could very well be an option. Not as much as a virtue signal from the city government as a management decision after being told by their underwriters that they will no longer assume that liability. So the city would just shove the law enforcement responsibility over to the county and let them handle it with their resources and tax base.
That woman is POWERFUL!
…and Tucker is right … that’s why they’re trying to shut her up by shutting her down … THAT’s RACISM
I still harken back to her telling off the smug Ted Lieu
I forgot, it also shows what an absolute moron Jerry Nadler is
I disagree with idea that a manslaughter conviction was justified, but as a civilized human being, I understand why some people do think it was (like @Jan Van) and I am willing to accept that outcome as a legitimate result of the legal process.
But my major concern in all of this is that as a policeman, unless it could be proven that he was not following procedure, which to my eye was alleged but not proven, there’s no way any of this could rise to murder. To say that he was following procedure but was negligent is reasonable.
To say that he had the mens rea and intent to meet a murder definition is absurd. He did as he was trained and the death was an accident. There is no “there” there, so to speak. It cannot be murder under the accepted definition of the term. If it is, then every procedurally compliant police interaction that ever occurs is a murder charge just waiting to happen if there is a loss of life.
Charging him with murder was just blood being thrown to the mob, and the quick conviction on such was so transparently sacrificial, that I suspect that the appeals court will eventually throw those convictions out and leave him with the manslaughter conviction that he had already agreed to before the politicians rejected it in favor of placating the mob.
I also wanted to say that not only was the jury intimidated, the judge was too. There was no way that judge was ever going to allow the trial to end on anything just a jury verdict that would deflect blame on him. The judge should have been sequestered too, by the looks of it.
What I want to know is what skin the Pittsburg Penguins CEO had in this “game”
I could see the Dallas Stars nee Minnesota North Stars weighing in but …
Holy let’s have a pile on Batman
|”I disagree with idea that a manslaughter conviction was justified, but as a civilized human being, I understand why some people do think it was (like @Jan Van) and I am willing to accept that outcome as a legitimate result of the legal process.”||
—When I use the word “justified” it applies in the sense that each of the specific statutory elements of the crime(s) charged were proven beyond a reasonable doubt to the minds of the jury based on the evidence admitted to them by the court during the trial. I don’t mean “justified” in the sense that JUSTICE WAS DONE in some philosophical sense. This is a distinction with an important (critical) difference. I saw what evidence there was and a reasonable mind could agree with the jury (or not).
—As I stated “I don’t like” (the verdict) – but I wasn’t a juror.
–Chauvin had Qualified Immunity (as a Peace Officer) for his acts – which I believe should have completely shielded him from both Murder charges (both politically charged and essentially wrong). But, that is a problem with The LAW in MINNESOTA – and not with the Judge or this Trial.
||”To say that he had the mens rea and intent to meet a murder definition is absurd.”||
I wholeheartedly agree – but that is the absurdity of the CRIMINAL CODE OF MINNESOTA. Lawyers call this “supplied intent” as opposed to “mental intent”. It has a place in true Felony Murder – perhaps, maybe, in some instances.
||I suspect that the appeals court will eventually throw those convictions out and leave him with the manslaughter conviction that he had already agreed to before the politicians rejected it in favor of placating the mob.||
—The appeals court CAN possibly quash the 3rd Degree Murder conviction based on some technical case precedent. I wouldn’t expect it though.
–The STATE appeals court CANNOT quash the 2nd Degree Murder conviction – but as this was applied to a Peace Officer it is beyond the pale of reason IMO. Nevertheless it will stand. There may be some dispute up in the higher ether of the appellate intelligentia – but fundamentally – NO WAY
–Ultimately the Judge has sentencing control (not the Jury and not the State). Chauvin “technically” exceeded the Reasonable Officer standard established by Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386 (1989). This is a jury determination – I disagree with the JURY – but I was not on THE JURY and the matter is up to their unique judgment under our system.
—Of course this entire trial was POLITICAL THEATER IN EXTREMIS. But – it was still in the dry sense, a trial conducted under the rule of law by an impartial Judge. All trials are imperfect and full of irregularities. This was a Fair Trial (some are not). Whether Justice was served is an entirely different handful of nuts. Candace Owens is entitled to her opinion – but it would be at odds with the Judge presiding over this case whose professional reputation is unimpeachable. He did his job under immense pressure from nefarious buffoons in other branches of government and their pals in our MIND CONTROL REVOLUTIONARY MEDIA.
ummm, well, you know, if Chauvin had just acted with a bit of professionalism none of this would have happened.
yes, I know, Floyd wasn’t a model citizen.
we can’t help that.
what we can help is whether we have model policemen.
Chauvin was not, clearly (something over a dozen misconduct complaints in his career?).
Was Floyd a bad guy? Was Chauvin a racist? Who knows? Who cares?
At that moment Chauvin was incredibly stupid and arrogant.
Get rid of cops like Chauvin and you’ll do more to put a stop to this theatre than anything else.
Just like with the Doom where you can’t trust the stats other than total deaths, here you can’t trust the crime stats for blacks going forward except for total murders. Sad!
Jurors each made the best decision in a bad situation. I.e. kick it up to the appeals court and save my own house from being burnt to the ground. And the judge assured them they could safely do just that.
I watched the full bodycam footage from the point where the police first approached Floyd’s vehicle to the point where the ambulance took him away. My overriding impression was how restrained the police were with a man who refused to do what they asked until (and after) he got out of the police vehicle and had to be restrained. At the very most Chauvin should have been charged with involuntary manslaughter – at the very most.
This was a political prosecution from the beginning. Not only was there plenty of evidence for “reasonable doubt,” but there was clear evidence to prove Floyd died of a drug overdose and Chauvin should never have been charged in the first place. And it’s clear that both the judge and the jurors were intimidated and fearful and knew that only one outcome would be acceptable (Did the jury even understand what “reasonable doubt” means?). Judge should have sequestered jury in the first place. Waters should have been arrested for incitement. And the paper doxing jurors should be charged with jury tampering and intimidation (as should those protesting outside courthouse during trial – which is also against the law and is considered a form of jury intimidation). The judge even cited Waters and agreed there may be grounds for mistrial or overturning on appeal (it won’t be – again for political not legal reasons), yet refused to declare mistrial himself (basically he’s afraid and just wanted to kick it to someone higher up to deal with).
And on the same day, the Biden admin began efforts to force doctors – against religious or other conscientious objections – to prescribe puberty blockers and perform tranny-related surgical procedures.
This is nothing but a sick and disgusting clown country now, completely devoted to worship of blacks and trannies, who are the Gods of the new Woke Civil Religion (no matter what their behavior), and where the only “systemic racism” is that devoted to denigrating and discriminating against whites day-in-day-out (by government, media, corporations, schools and universities…you name it).
I wish China or Russia would just launch a nuke at DC and decapitate this sick regime.
Note also that Hennepin County went +43 to Biden in ’20 (Minneapolis proper went at least +75 Biden). Chauvin never had a chance with that juror pool.
Get out of the cities isn’t just good advice due to the increase in crime, increase in cost, decrease in security, decrease in social trust, etc. The legal system in these places is far less just than you’ll get elsewhere.
@Jan Van Betsuni
Both Minnesota and Wisconsin statutes seem to reject any consideration of mens rea
They EVEN give short shrift to the idea of self defense – Whoever wins the physical fight loses the legal one
I know a guy who was accosted by an acquaintance of his, the acquaintance came onto this guys property, yelled at him and made like a ballplayer/umpire pushing at him with his stomach
When all was said and done the acquaintance called the police on this guy –
The prosecutor charged them both and eventually threatened “FELONY ASSAULT and BATTERY” on the guy if he didn’t plead “no contest” to a lesser misdemeanor charge.
Here’s the question to consider: initially the state floated the possibility of a 1st degree murder charge. Does anyone really believe that had that been part of the trial, that this jury would not have also convicted Chauvin of 1st degree murder?
The left is immune to facts and evidence–they KNOW what they feel, and that is all they need to know. The rest are just words.
If Maxine Waters had told them to, yes
You have (had) a real nice town here, it’d be a pity if the rest of it burned down
Scott in Phx:
“what we can help is whether we have model policemen.
“Chauvin was not, clearly (something over a dozen misconduct complaints in his career?).”
You may be shocked to learn that criminals often make baseless allegations of misconduct against officers who arrest them. It’s simply good jailhouse lawyering. Chauvin’s number of misconduct complains is not unusual for a long career on an urban police force. If I recall correctly, few if any of the complaints were found to have merit.
First Degree Murder is the ultimate test of malice aforethought proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Defense counsel (Nelson) would have had a picnic-in-the-park-day establishing lack of premeditation or other qualifying factors constituting the requisite malice aforethought for a First Degree conviction.
MURDER (or REDRUM if you are a Kubrick/King fan) has a special visceral appeal to the mob. Any flavor of MURDER will do just fine:: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or Synthetic Strict Liability Felony Murder under a Merger Doctrine predicated on proof of a Third Degree Assault (which is how they got their Murder in the 2nd Degree conviction in this case – b/c it was the only way that they could).
MURDER makes the Headlines. Murder in the Headlines keep goods in the stores and prescription drugs on the pharmacy shelves.
If the Prosecution Team (all ringers by the way – hired from the outside – not a single staff employee of Minnesota State) had charged 1st Degree Murder they would have had egg on their faces.
“Get rid of cops like Chauvin and you’ll do more to put a stop to this theatre than anything else.”
No, I really don’t think so.
To be honest, I couldn’t work up any interest in the original event or this trial. As an engineer, I live and breathe root cause analysis. If you take the time to collect data and assess it honestly, you aren’t going to start with bar #11 on the Pareto chart and expect to make any headway. In fact, by ignoring bars #1 thru #10, there’s a good chance you will make the problem worse. Do black lives matter? If you choose to ignore threats #1 thru #10 to black lives, and focus solely on #11, you are effectively saying that no, black lives don’t matter. You are really saying that some goal other than black lives matters a lot more, so much more, in fact, that you are willing to sacrifice more black lives to achieve that goal.
Rudolph: I believe this jury would have convicted him of literally anything put before them. Prosecution should have just thrown in the JFK assassination, Epstein’s death, and a few other unsolved mysteries (perhaps he’s the real DB Cooper?). And if they really wanted to impress the Left – especially Rachel Maddow – they should have charged him with being a Russian agent as well!
“You are really saying that some goal other than black lives matters a lot more, so much more, in fact, that you are willing to sacrifice more black lives to achieve that goal.”
If the BLM crowd really believed their rhetoric and wanted to protect black lives, they’d sponsor a series of nationwide PSAs on how to behave when under arrest.
Y’all his lawyers were absolute shit. Like I wonder if they screwed up on purpose level absolute shit. They didn’t even argue Floyd died of a drug overdose. They just mealy mouthed about oh gosh lots of stuff might have contributed so who knows what happened, amirite? Watch the closing arguments, it’s embarrassing.
Ryan, give ’em a break–they don’t want their houses burnt down either.
All Lives Matter … Even the Babies in their Mothers’ Wombs … whatever their Colour …. How about Protesting the Murders of those Little Ones??? That actions are legal, does not necessarily make them right or sinless before God.
We have all sinned and have fallen short before God. Let us pray for the graces of repentance all round.
God bless, C-Marie
Milton Hathaway: “You are really saying that some goal other than black lives matters a lot more, so much more, in fact, that you are willing to sacrifice more black lives to achieve that goal.”
This is obvious to us, but to our amazement and frustration most people can’t see it. Most people think this is simply about poor blacks being put upon by mean whites. If you try to explain there is a larger game afoot where blacks — and others — are deceived into acting as destroyers by a sinister force who gains power by making men miserable, they think you’re nuts.
I DID NOT see the video of Chauvin’s knee on his back, I saw the video of Chauvin’s knee on his neck. I thought it was unintentional manslaughter as he did not even try to help the man, just held him down. I do not believe for one second knowing video was running that he thought anything he was doing was against protocol. Later discovered he was holding him in place until the paramedics arrived. Floyd was not being compliant, cooperative, he was definitely resisting arrest. AND THEN pelosi says thank you to him for sacrificing his life???? Is she for real, makes it sound like they conspired – scenario – Floyd stops by his psychiatrist/doctor’s office – diagnosed as drug addled near dead, suicidal anyway – never let a situation go to waste – someone said hey you dying anyways – let us put it to use for against police cause – take this phony 20 – act crazy and resist, and then pelosi thanks him for his sacrifice as if she was a part of it
The jurors heard the testimony and considered the evidence. Both autopsy reports called this a homicide. The commenters here should actually read these reports. This was murder. Justice was served.
“If I recall correctly, few if any of the complaints were found to have merit.”
hmmm, sure, when the police investigate themselves its not surprising that they found no problems.
““Get rid of cops like Chauvin and you’ll do more to put a stop to this theatre than anything else.”
No, I really don’t think so.”
Seems straight forward to me.
If Chauvin hadn’t acted as he did then none of this would have happened.
I just don’t see how anyone can argue with that.
How is this possible? cowardice.
However.. I predict that this verdict will not stand (and, that Waters and Biden will not be charged with jury tampering; although both are self-evidently guilty. )
In the closing minutes of the trial the prosecution introduced new evidence (that everyone naturally assumed they hid from the defence for months) to the effect that GF’s blood O content was near normal at the time of the post-mortem examination. Introduced to counter the defence expert who added possible CO poisoning to the causes of death this amounted to prosecutorial misconduct – even the judge said this could force a mistrial and form the basis for an appeal.
However.. if GF died because Clavin et al cut off his O flow, the blood O content would not have been near normal. Therefore their actions did not cause his death. Some people will, of course, say the parameds gave him pure O in the ambulance (they did) but it would not have entered the bloodstream if he were already dead – and, if he wasn’t, then Clavin et al didn’t kill him. Either way Clavin et al have obvious grounds to demand a new trial and grounds for dismissal of charges when that trial is granted by the appeals court.
“The jurors heard the testimony and considered the evidence. Both autopsy reports called this a homicide. The commenters here should actually read these reports. This was murder. Justice was served.” This assumes humans NEVER make mistakes and somehow the American justice system is omnipotent. I cannot see how that can be defended. Technically, people are found not guilty or “on appeal”. A jury verdict is rarely final and certainly does not represent objective truth. Autopsies do not represent “truth”, they represent the conclusion of the person doing the autopsy. Like everything else in life, that which the writer chooses not to include or refuses to believe, or just missed, is not included.
Floyd died of a heart attack induced by a drug overdose. Chauvin happened to be there at the wrong time. If Floyd had just sat his ass down in the police car when they told him too, he’d still likely be dead given his heart disease and the amount of fentanyl (and meth and thc as well) in his system.
And already the media is moving on to a new Holy Victim of Whitey – the knife attacker whose mother abandoned her but who goes on TV to portray her murderous, knifing daughter as a “motherly” and “peaceful” person. If I were a white cop these days, I would simply refuse to go into any black areas or respond to calls involving blacks. Let them knife each other, shot each other, OD, etc. Not worth it. They won’t need to defund police, since most with any sanity will just leave the forces in droves, leaving nothing but skeletal remains of PDs incapable of responding to anything. This country is heading for complete societal breakdown, thanks to the DIE ideology of the last several decades. Anyone who can should look to just get out.
No. One. Decent. will allow themselves to be seated on any significant jury after this.
The judicial system is done.
Which is precisely what Satan’s useful idiots want.
The really awesome Medical Examiner proved that there was no Carbon Monoxide poisoning by providing proof that Floyd’s blood was at 98% Oxygenation. I thought he had Positional Asphyxia…
I have yet to see someone explain a way that does what the knee technique does.
Using that technique the office does not have his hands on the head. If the officer tries to stabilize the head, the person on the ground can make it look like the officer is pounding his head into the ground. If the officer does not control the head at all, then he is may be liable for damage that occurs while he is flopping on the ground.
Should they have let Floyd drive away? (now they are liable for any damage he does after leaving)
Should they have let him run away with his hands behind his back? (Now they are liable if he falls)
If they had gone harder on him earlier, they might have damaged him in other ways…
If we have learned anything from this event, it is that qualified immunity had a reason.
Based on the blood panel, survival was in doubt for all pathways, except for that indication of blood oxygenation.
According to American like you guys:
The USA is the greatest most beautiful country in the word. You are supposed to be the freest country on earth.
Yet, very few countries in the world are less safe.
The USA IS THE MOST REPRESSIVE COUNTRY ON THE PLANET. With more people in prison in total than China or India who have a population 5 times larger.
People by gun to protect themselves. And every time someone is shot it is always the « good guy with the gun » who is afraid. Never the unarmed victim.
You are afraid of your neighbor, your government, the police. Blue lives only matter when interacting agains blacks. But they are the ennemies when they defend congress.
You believe stupid conspiracy theories and reject science.
Movies make the USA to be a paradise while it is no better than Saoudi Arabia.
Here is my question:
If the USA Are so great, why are you all so freaking afraid of everything?
Canadian, European, Australia, most Asian country do not live in fear. We do not live in a post apocalyptique world.
Maybe you should have watch the trial and listen to the prosecution pulmonologist explain the exact moment George Floyd died and how both knees of Chauvin prevented him from breathing. He also explained why he was able to say he could not breath until the level of oxygen fell so low he could not speak.
People by gun to protect themselves.
Yeah and it works!
Awhile back someone broke into my house while I was there. At first I thought it was the guy renting a room from me and was wondering why he was making so much noise. As I started down the stairs to investigate I realized it wasn’t him so I got my .38 pistol. He came out of the kitchen as I returned. When I pointed the gun at his head he suddenly remembered a pressing appointment elsewhere and quickly left to attend to it.
It must have been very pressing because when I followed out the door about 10 second later he was gone!
He’s never returned.
how both knees of Chauvin prevented him from breathing. He also explained why he was able to say he could not breath until the level of oxygen fell so low he could not speak.
Gotta wonder how the prosecution pulmonologist got all that from watching a video. Sounds more like an opinion. What tests were made to determine if it really was the cause and not just a possible one?
The high level of fentanyl in his system had nothing to do with his death of course.
Fentanyl (and opiates in general) prevent the body from detecting when to breathe so you simply stop trying.
re: People by gun to protect themselves.
Some people must have missed the actual autopsies, the ones that actually examined the body and found that there were no signs of knee-to-the-necking suffocation. You know… actual science… versus the bits and pieces that mainstream media allows them to hear, which in this case is the “autopsy” done by the prosecution merely from watching cell phone camera footage.
This is why people are lining up to get the not-a-vaccines. Or they were anyway… as “demand” has dropped, and they intend to fix that with another fear and full-hospitals propaganda campaign. Even funnier when you realize they won’t tell you how many of those cases or those filling up the hospitals are the ‘already-vaxxed’ which are naturally being picked up by the PCR tests as easy-sucker-positives.
“They don’t care about the long-term and societal consequences of their dishonesty.”
They absolutely care, the long-term effects are why their behavior is encouraged by elites. The more violence, the more need for “police reform.” Police reform means increased federal control of local police. Which means more tyranny.
Everything the Left does makes perfect sense once you realize their goal is power.
Sylvain back with an army of straw men: “According to American like you guys: The USA is the greatest most beautiful country in the word. You are supposed to be the freest country on earth.”
Can you find one person who posts regularly on these threads who actually believes or has ever said this? And the rest of the post just gets worse from there…
As for the “I can’t breathe” stuff, if Sylvain had watched the entire body cam vid, he’d have seen that Floyd started saying “I can’t breathe” long before he was on the ground and while police were still just trying to get him to sit his ass down in the car. Since that “I can’t breathe” line goes back to another case a few years ago, it’s become a common refrain among black people under arrest…just shout “I cant’s breathe” and pretend you’re being abused no matter the situation while resisting arrest (though in Floyd’s case, it was probably true as he was likely already going into Fentanyl-induced cardiac arrest).
Kathleen: “No. One. Decent. will allow themselves to be seated on any significant jury after this.”
Well, most don’t have to worry about it anyway. Jury selection is mostly designed to weed-out the “decent” people capable of intelligent, critical thinking or complex analysis, especially in criminal cases. Attorneys, especially prosecutors, want malleable people easily swayed by emotion (and likely to go along with the herd – which helps prevent hung juries. Think about it – all Chauvin needed was 1 juror, yet not one had the courage to stand against the mob). I doubt most jurors even truly understood the burden of proof. Though I don’t do criminal law, I’ve seen myself how people often misconstrue burden of proof even after I’ve has been explained to them in a particular instance. Wouldn’t surprise me at all – despite it having been explained to them – if, deep down (perhaps even subconsciously) the jurors in this case actually operated as if the defense had to prove innocence and that “reasonable doubt” in effect meant “if in doubt about innocence, convict.” If I were a criminal defendant, I’d much prefer a bench trial if it were an option rather than leave my fate in the hands of 12 randos whose numbers the computer happened to spit out the day of jury selection (at least a judge can be expected to know the law and how to construe evidence in light of the proper burden of proof).
>> Think about it – all Chauvin needed was 1 juror, yet not one had the courage to stand against the mob
Yes. Exactly. Jury selection already was a mess. But — if your life depended on justice there was some faint glimmer of hope. My husband was the lone voice of reason twice on juries and turned them around. He seems to be cursed in getting called and seated. Me they kick out!
But next time he gets called you better believe I will be doing my best to see that they don’t seat him. These jackals would ruin us.
According to legal beagles in the Twin Cities, the Minnesota Statues second degree murder charge requires the commission of a Felony. So the question is was LEO DC committing a felony during the
arrest of Mr Floyd? I do not think so.
Hmm, I have been called for jury duty three times in my long life. Twice stricken due to my occupation and the last due to my declining health.
“Gotta wonder how the prosecution pulmonologist got all that from watching a video. Sounds more like an opinion. What tests were made to determine if it really was the cause and not just a possible one?”
I can see that Tucker Carlson is eating your brain cells, or at least what remains.
If you had listened to the testimony of the pulmonologist you would have all the answers to all your question.
Someone who has taken fentanyl would not noticed that he can’t breath. For them it is like falling asleep.
Floyd lack so much air that he was trying to breath until he couldn’t.
Unresponsiveness is also something that can be observed when someone is dead.
Yes, guns protect families.
This is only the first page search on google
Unresponsiveness is also something that can be observed when someone is dead.
Well, no, of course you don’t. However it does illustrate the shallow logic of those who are doing your thinking for you. You might want to replace them with more capable performers but then you’d have to think about doing that all by yourself so I guess it will never happen.
This is only the first page search on google
Let’s see. You went to a place known to actively censor opposing views to support your position as if you might have found nonsupporting items. Is Google the only place where you get your thought injections or are there others?
Wandering way off topic (not unusual with SA):
One poignant comment: “Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars”.
You win the Darwin Award
I guess the psychiatric institution holding you should increase your medication.
«One poignant comment: “Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars”. »
What an idiotic comparison, that the right often use and always fail.
Senator Kennedy used it a few weeks ago, and looked like an idiot.
The primary use of a car is not to kill people.
A gun has only one purpose which is to kill.
Many type of weapons are designed for hunting. But hand gun are design to kill people.
And again why is it always the guy with the gun who is afraid?
I agree entirely with every word of this post. First time in a long while.
The best they had was manslaughter or negligence. Listening to the defence, particularly the closing arguments, which came a little late, thee WAS reasonable doubt.
George was already having a drug assisted anxiety attack and adrenalin serge before he even entered the vehicle.
“I can’t breathe”. several times before he was put on the ground.
‘I’m claustrophobic”. at the site of the small space? That was panic.
“losing” evidence from the police car? which happened to incriminate the victim?
The Irish Dr was a poor witness. His numbers were fanciful and nebulous at best.
It is true that as he describes, prevention of the movement of the chest cavity will reduce and potentially prevent movement air in and out of the lungs. However. It was not constant and some of the time George was on his side, saying the same thing and apparently, to Chauvin, making the same kinds of claims as he did prior to Chauvin laying a hand on him.
I believe Chauvin had reasonable reason to misread and misunderstand what was going on for George.
It is, as the Defence said, Tragic.
So much to say about this and the broader implications.
I do think Briggs is right that if a right turn does not happen on the political stage it will happen anyway by a lot of people getting hurt.
It’s easier for women in these kinds of situations.
For Murder, here, you have to have intent to kill.
For manslaughter, just an intent to hurt someone but not to kill them.
The best they had was negligence.
Whatever was in Chauvin’s heart at the time, he was punished because BLM>
He was used as a totem. As was George in death.
That’s not justice. It’s revenge.
Trial by media
Why would any one, as Briggs says, want to go near a dangerous neighbourhood as a police officer let alone a member of the public?
The white racists who hate their own race and the black racists who hate the whites do nobody any favours.
Keep telling the truth:
If you don’t want to be arrested or caught, don’t break the law.
Don’t resist Arrest!
Teach your young lads to do as they’re told. Stop telling them that policemen are evil.
This is how South Africa ended up the way it went. The most dangerous lace on Earth for gun crimes.
Police used to stop white people in their cars to MAKE SURE they had a gun in the glove box.
My late uncle was stopped out thee on that very basis.
BLM storms Oklahoma Capitol over GOP bills protecting drivers fleeing riots, police from ‘doxxing’.
cars may not have been designed to kill, but I would wager that cars kill more people than guns do. Protection is the purpose of a weapon not death, death is the result of needing to protect.
Question for Joy, how long ago and where did
“Police used to stop white people in their cars to MAKE SURE they had a gun in the glove box.
My late uncle was stopped out thee on that very basis.”
My father was police officer in state of Delaware. I can assure you that never happened and our own glove box never contained a gun. He was both police officer and hunter.
Lets hope it doesn’t happen in the US, but that’s the direction of travel if the trouble makers get their way.
In South Africa, the point is “give the US time”, that’s where it ends.
He was stopped years ago when he was first living there.
“do you have a gun on board?:
“yes’ said my Uncle,
Okay, off you go, or words to that effect, said the policeman.
Black people specifically, were killing whites for their phones or other trivial wants.
They are tribal in South Africa and always will be.
Social engineers are attempting to appeal to the same kinds of emotions amongst white and black people around the media’sphere.
Being a policeman is a noble profession
Johannesburg, Sorry. That’s where they lived but they may well have been travelling elsewhere by road.
He thought he was going to be in trouble for having a gun! Being English.
They were stopping drivers to advise them
Joy wasn’t talking about the US. No state requires gun ownership but there are at least 5 cities that do with some exemptions.
Very interesting … and in the US, laws are unique to each state.
Minnesota has screwy statutes and I think they stretched them for this purpose
Between Maxine Waters and everything , Chauvin should be able to appeal
I’ll be watching Viva Frei and Robert Barnes summation this Sunday
Their interview with JD Vance was notable
If you watch old Perry Mason shows, at least a half dozen involved or discussed guns in glove boxes
Being California, half of those cars were convertibles
Joy is quite correct. In the UK where I trained, and the UK and Canada where i practiced (albeit briefly and in torts not criminal), and in other countries of the Commonwealth there is no way the Crown would have touched a murder charge with a ten foot punt pole. It was all, quite clearly, a case of manslaughter that needed to be answered. However the statutes in Minnesota seem to have been written and used by the prosecution in such a way as to give a jury the option of a form of murder, I’m still not really clear on the law in this case. At any rate given a strict application of the letter of the law the jury did nothing “legally incorrect”. I also surmise these statutes were written to protect the public more from persons like Floyd himself, rather than Chauvin. Irony! In the UK he would, unless he were completely crackers, have opted for trial by judge alone to a charge of manslaughter. Commonwealth countries, for the most part, have a straightforward distinction between murder and manslaughter rather than a, somewhat bizarre, laundry list of types of murder. The minutiae of degree would be dealt with at sentencing. In the case of manslaughter judges have great latitude and can, in theory, give anything from time served to life. Perhaps to American notions this gives judges way too much power? Furthermore our judges are appointed not elected, which like anything else is a double edged sword! In this case 10 years to manslaughter conviction seems a likely outcome. Pity Chauvin was in Minnesota not Manchester.
“Guest”- Joys example was from South Africa not Delaware. I’m told Capetown is lovely, but I’m not anxious to find out!
Thank you Joy, I had hoped nothing that racist had occurred in US
J D Vance talks about his Nanna who was old and crippled and had at least one gun in every room so she had ready access to one. Her “favorite” gun was a 44 Magnum … not to shoot (he wasn’t sure she could even pick up … but Nanna would quote Clint Eastwood
J D Vance said she taught about guns when he was about 7 years old.
One time when she didn’t think he was paying attention, she shot the gun at a watermelon she set up
He jumped and Nanna told him if he wasn’t careful about guns, that’d be him
to require one race to carry a gun is racist, I am white. I think racism has been carried to the extreme and now flipped to whites being the noes racially oppressed, but I do not want it the other way where any one individual let alone whole group is treated less than another or better than another.
My dad would never be so careless with a gun. Our house was never locked, many excess could come and go – eat, be there when I got home from school, I am female. No problem until one day, I came home and his gun rack had been touched. One of his guns was put back upside down. From then on the house was locked and even at times I was locked out just because someone touched his guns.
Whites were being targeted. Think of it as similar to wearing a rona mask. Unlike the mask though, the gun could save your life.
My dad would never be so careless with a gun
Or with bleach that someone might drink or his car keys to prevent thefts leading to an accident.
He only locked up the house? The gun was replaced. Doesn’t sound like what an outsider would do.
In the incident I related above, the gun was unloaded and locked in a safe. It took a depressingly long time to get to it and load it. Fortunately I had the time. Still I now keep it loaded and within easy reach.
When I was growing up the guns in the house were never kept under lock and key for much the same reason that the household bleach wasn’t as well. It was inconceivable they would be used outside of their intended purpose. The fact that most households these days don’t have guns means that the proper attitude toward them is rarely instilled.
My sister has a carry permit. One of the reasons is that her husband and sons often leave a pistol in the glove box and she could get into trouble if it was discovered without it. The primary reason though is it allows having protection available.
65 years old. in past I have used a gun – target shooting, I was fair. Now I think the gov will always have bigger guns, no matter what, criminals will always have the upper hand and I am not strong enough to shoot straight. I am relying on GOD to sort things out. or judgement. So look up your redemption draws nigh, and if you do not know JESUS as your LORD and Savior then get to someone who does and repent so you too can be a whosoever.
Strange Floyd claimed being “claustrophobic” was why he couldn’t just sit in the squad car, even though he had first been encountered sitting in the driver’s seat of a similarly sized vehicle! But this – along with frequent claims of “I can’t breathe” – is just the type of nonsense response blacks have been encouraged to take during any encounter with cops.
“Between Maxine Waters and everything, Chauvin should be able to appeal”
Of course he is “able to appeal,” as anyone can. The question is whether it will succeed. While there is certainly sufficient grounds to have the verdict overturned (even the trial judge basically said so, but passed the buck to a higher court rather than show some courage himself), it basically comes down to less a matter of pure law than whether or not the appeals court judges have any more political and moral courage than the trial judge or jurors. I wouldn’t hold out much hope (And given today’s political climate, it would be tantamount to the judge signing his own social and professional – perhaps even actual for both him and his family – death warrant). And I wouldn’t be surprised if Chauvin were to be suicided in jail to make his appeal a moot issue anyway.
It does seem that the rules which applied for the jurors to consider were set up in such a way as to help jurors to make up their minds easily. That’s problematic, too. As you say, a judge would have been more objective. I thought the judge was not unsympathetic to Chauvin. He seemed to know, just a hunch, that it would be likely a retrial request would be sustained on appeal on grounds of juror coercion and non sequestration all the way through.
I detected distain towards the Pulmonologist and the EMT fire lady. He left quite a list of items for the defence to appeal about
Judging from the crime programmes I’ve watch from America, the states vary so greatly, on sentencing, too.
Hope the Judge gives a sentence more in keeping with the actual truth of the matter.
Guest, it’s as Dav says out there.
Not to mention the lions and the other big five.
Did you see that on lockdown in South Africa the lions were lying all over the road?
You know how domestic cats do that in the sun? If only they were’n’t so ferocious
And as Briggs begins his post here “So the jury convicted Chauvin of both murder and manslaughter of the same man”. Yeah and that statement alone says it all of what’s going on here. Need we say anymore?!
In response to comment posted by Sylvain Allard:
>> Canadian, European, Australia, most Asian country do not live in fear
The Canadian governments lockdowns say otherwise.
Primitive civilizations have always sacrificed the innocent to assuage their ignorant fears. Mount Racisim is just one location among many.
I’m late with this