Where E Michael Jones And I Disagree — Guest Post by Ianto Watt

Where E Michael Jones And I Disagree — Guest Post by Ianto Watt

Mike Jones says we’re winning. I believe him. Seriously. But no, not politically. You can’t ever really win at that game. Why? Because of our lack of a homogeneous society, both religiously and culturally. Politics is always downstream from those two, as some bright guy once said. And don’t forget, when it comes to ‘Democracy’, who is it that now seems to have ‘Dominion’ over all creation?

But politics is not what counts, ultimately. Getting to Heaven, not Washington, is the goal. We’ve already seen what happens when things begin to look too comfy down here. We go to sleep. And wake up to a nightmare. One which gets worse the more ‘woke’ we become. Politics can’t fix that. In fact, politics is the problem, not the cure.

Like me, Mike looks at things differently. He has bought into jiu-jitsu on a cosmic scale. He says, in his magnum opus, Logos Rising, that every un-healthy alliance results in a civil war between the erstwhile allies, once they have de-throned the hegemon-de-jour. A perfect example of this was the Catholic-American alliance that supposedly destroyed Communism (think of Poland in 1979). And then ‘Christian’ America turned on the Church by becoming more leftist than Moscow ever was.

In other words, every revolution begets the next revolution. It’s all part of the Hegelian dialectic where there is an endless cycle of conflict that leads inexorably to the next new player, and the next new confrontation.

Here it is in a nutshell. Mike says, like the Apostles did, that The World Spirit (a.k.a. the Holy Spirit) is capable of extracting The Good from any situation. Any situation. It’s all part of the inexorable march of Logos. Logos, as in reason, order and harmony. That is to say, The Word. Which is what Logos means, in Greek. The Word that perfectly reflects The Father. Which is why St. John’s (last) Gospel is so seminal. He is the one who fully revealed the essence of the creation, and its ultimate purpose. Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam.

Marx and Engels had it exactly backwards. There actually is an unstoppable march of pre-ordained history, but it’s not in the direction they thought. It’s not forward, further into the outer darkness, towards the New Materialist Man. In fact, it’s backwards, back to the Light, to the Old Spiritual Man. Named Jesus. And no matter what new variant the marketers of The New Man dream up, Mike says mankind is actually progressing towards a greater understanding of the cosmos, through the Light of Logos. But to get there, we’ve got to turn around. Take the next exit and double back. In fact, don’t wait for an exit. Jump the curb, crank the wheel and gun it.

Jones’ work in Logos Rising takes us on a post-Deluge world tour of civilizations, and shows the attempts in each succeeding culture to explain the cosmos, following mankind’s self-inflicted exile at Babel. The division of language plays a critical role in mankind’s frustrating search for reason, as most nations had no words for what Logos, ‘The Word’ represents. Thus, they could not express reason in a reasonable fashion.

In fact, it wasn’t until the Greek trinity (Socrates, Plato and Aristotle) that most of the words (and concepts) of philosophical thought began to re-emerge into man’s consciousness. And Philosophy was simply the beginning step on the Pagan march towards Logos. A march that Jones and I both see.

The Greek world, (which includes Persia, according to Mike, and I agree), lacking personal revelation, was stuck in an Aristotelian cul-de-sac that basically said there was a First Mover, but why would He bother to move? What motivated Him? Necessity? Impossible.

The Hebrews, on the other hand, had the right answer, that is to say, revelation, via Special Delivery, but hadn’t the means of expressing it to the nations that they should have enlightened, but didn’t. They hid their lamp under their bushel basket. Why? Because they dealt only with the just dictates of God the Father, and not the merciful reasoning behind it. And that reasoning was expressed in The Word. They rejected Him, because accepting Him meant they would lose their exclusive status as The Chosen Ones. After all, if anyone can join, what’s the purpose of an exclusive club? Oy vey!

Then came Christ, who showed mercy to those who thought they needed it. And were willing to ask it. Sorry, Pharisees. But again, in the early Church, there was no explication of Reason, as mercy was (and still is) more important. At least, to those of us who perceive that. I once had an argument with a wonderful priest who chastised me on my lack of concern for Thomistic thought. It’s not that I didn’t value it. I simply put it second place. When I asked him if a Down’s Syndrome child could make it to Heaven, he said ‘Of course!’. Then I asked him if they were usually conversant with St. Thomas. He growled and went away. The idiot wins again.

Then came The Enlightenment, which sought to convince us that matter was either eternal, or else it was self-generating. Either choice meant there was no need for a God. Which conclusion then led to making gods of men. Which, of course, was always the goal. Never mind the fact that either choice (eternal turtles or self-creating turtles) was ridiculous, from the standpoint of logic and reason. Which is to say, Logos. And so, the past 500 years have been spent by humanists trying to dodge the pregnant question: Who’s your Daddy? Not sure? Well, ask Thomas.

Now Jones, ever the researcher, spends 750 pages describing in exact detail how every civilization has taken a wrong turn onto a dead-end of either self-defeating turtle paradigm. This then allowed Reason (Logos) to defeat their flawed GPS system and then to advance another step in the right direction. That step usually consisted in the destruction of the previously-wrong explanation (which is a good thing) immediately followed by two new Hegelian steps in another wrong direction (which is a bad thing). Which leads into the next cul-de-sac.

But each cycle of this materialist game results in Logos being the reasoning agent that destroys the previous materialist paradigm. And so, Logos reigns briefly after each iteration, but is then immediately attacked by the newest philosophical ‘variant’. And we are then fed the latest ‘vaccine’ that supposedly cures it.

The most enlightening part of Logos Rising, for me, is the part Persia (Iran) plays in this whole thing called history. Mike rightly points out that history (meaning ‘time’) really wasn’t understood until Augustine of Hippo, in his City of God, made the point that there was a meaning to it all. A Telos, as Aristotle and The Gang would say. And that it was not cyclical.

That’s not to say, as I pointed out in my book, that mankind doesn’t repeat its own mistakes, endlessly. Thus, the cyclical nature of error. But time itself has a destination that endless cycles do not. No matter what new (or old) errors arise, Logos will defeat it as it marches forward to The End. The End that reveals the meaning of all things. Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam.

St. Augustine perceived all of this, and put time into eternal perspective. That is, that it is a road that leads somewhere. It’s not an eternal round-about. And here’s where Mike and I diverge. Because Mike seems to think that there is a kernel of Catholic truth hidden within the Persian (Shiite) version of Islam. And that this kernel of truth will eventually lead them to the true path.

OK, a little back-channel discussion is needed here. Mike also thinks that Russia is now a truly Christian country. And that Russia, in true jiu-jitsu fashion, follows in the footsteps of Logos. He (rightly) sees that on the surface of things, Christian America and Bolshevik Russia have traded places. And that, as I have said for a long time, makes it possible to conceive of a Catholic Church headed by a Russian. So far, so good. At least, on the surface, as I said. And Mike has bought this line. No, not the part about the Pope being from Russia. But in all other aspects, we (America) have traded places with Russia in the eyes of Logos. And again, I agree. On the surface, that is.

And here, I think, is where Mike gets waylaid. Mike sees the de-facto alliance of a putatively Christian Russia and Shiite Iran as confirmation of his theory that Shiism can be seen as Aristotelian in nature. And therefore, that Iranian religious beliefs, like Aristotle, can be conformed to The Church. He has seemingly elevated Averroes (the Shiite philosopher) to the Islamic version of St. Thomas, who rectified Aristotle’s metaphysical construct. But only Thomas could lead us past the dualism that constrained the Aristotelian paradigm.

I must admit, Mike knows his history. Better than anyone else I know. He is truly diligent in tracing the steps of time and beliefs. I’ve read all his stuff, (Slaughter of Cities, Degenerate Moderns, The Revolutionary Jewish Spirit, Culture Wars, and so on ) over many years, and he has not been wrong once. Until now. Why? First of all, because he doesn’t believe Anatoly Golitsyn (New Lies For Old). And evidently, he doesn’t believe Our Lady of Fatima.

I know, that’s a pretty heavy charge. Not the Golitsyn part. No, others have fallen into disbelief in the ability of Evil to plan ahead, and conceal itself. In fact, if I was a visitor from Mars, I could buy into the Russia-is-Christian (and therefore America is the Great Satan) schtick. And here is where everybody makes the basic error. They think it has to be one or the other. That it couldn’t be both. That is, that there could be two Great Satans. One is the Roman Empire, and the other is the Russo-Roman Empire-in-waiting. It’s the typical false dichotomy.

Anyway, Mike thinks the ‘religious’ Khazars can plan and conceal (via the Talmud) , but the recent Ruskies can’t (New Lies For Old). But the Khazars, in one of their many secular forms, ruled Russia for at least one bloc of 72 years. Eh?

Think about it. Why the Hell would El Diablo ride only one horse? There’s four in the Apocalypse, after all. No, he’s busy buying every jockey on every throne. The game is rigged. He can’t lose. But as Mike so rightly noted, before he went into his Farsi Dead-End, Logos is the only One who can’t lose.

So, here’s where Mike goes wrong. He’s angry. And that has clouded his judgment. He’s mad, at someone. I’m not sure who, but he’s mad, nonetheless. And who’s he maddest at? Traditional Catholics, that’s who. Did you see his Twitter rant about how Traddies are the opiate of The Masses? Great pun! He sees Traddies as being idiots who are hiding out in the basement, like Joe, busy ignoring the real problem in the Church today. The same problem, he rightly points out, that has afflicted the Church hierarchy for a thousand years and more. And that problem? The Jews!

He’s right, as far as that goes. He doesn’t spare anyone here, Novus Ordo or Latin alike. Avoiding the question of the subversive nature of Jewish elements in every society has led to the successful subversion of every society that ignores it. I agree. But now comes the problem for Mike. He’s blind in his right eye.

He can see every (Jewish) enemy to the Left. Every damned one. No one escapes his gaze. And no useful idiots either. He can see every Lieutenant Governor and Secretary of State and even County Commissioner that George Soros has bought and owned. But he can’t see what’s right in front of his Right (Russian) eye. And the Persians with them.

Here’s the final element that proves his madness. If, as Mike says, that Traddies are truly a problem because of their unwillingness to submit (sounds Islamic, no?) to proper authority, they are actually harming the unity of The Church. Their resistance to Vatican II and it’s change in rubrics makes Traddies the equivalent of the Raskolniks of Russia when they resisted the reforms of Patriarch Nikon in 1666, thus splitting the Greco-Russian Orthodox Church into pieces. This, in turn, has caused The Church in Russia to be subservient to the state. (Mike never says anything specific about this logical chain, but he can’t.)

If Western Traddies, (that is, Latin Rite adherents) are the source of division because of their attachment to rubrics over dogma (as Mike says in his rant, and in so many other ways), then the Pope is right to suppress them, correct?

But here’s my problem. I never hear Mike’s dog that doesn’t bark. Why? Because he doesn’t bark! Yeah, Mike’s got a dog. And it’s in this fight. His dog is the Greco-Russian Orthodox Church. The Eastern Traddies, that is. Who, by the bye, happen to be guilty of exactly the same charge Mike levels against Western Traddies. That is, the attachment to rubrics to the detriment of dogma. But Mike’s dog-ma won’t bark when he looks east. And judges that Russia is actually a Christian land. The only problem, unspoken by Mike, is that this estranged Eastern segment of the Church, is far more guilty of the crime he perceives in the western version of schism. Which, interestingly enough, the previous two Popes have judged not to be schismatic in their valid attachment to the Old Latin Rite. And all that it means.

In other words, Mike is at odds with the two previous Popes he lionizes. All the while as he defends the one he doesn’t like. Something’s funny here.

Here’s the scene. Mike is convinced Russia is converted. In which case, according to Our Lady of Fatima, there should have been a period of world-wide peace that ensued. So, Mike, where’s the peace? Simple question. Where’s the peace? ‘Christian’ Russia seems to have strange bedfellows in Shiite Persia (and China?), Mike.

But don’t get me wrong, I am in favor (like Mike) in going out and preaching the Gospel to all the nations. It’s our duty. So, I think it’s right to engage the Muslim world at an intellectual level. That of course rules out the Sunni’s, who deny the existence of Philosophy as a concept (as their god is pure will, and no reason is needed). But the Shiites do have some strain of Aristotle in their past, so dialogue might be possible. But here’s Mike’s other problem. He spends half his book showing how Thomistic reason is the key to understanding (to the extent that we can) God’s motivation (love, vs. necessity) in going from being the Unmoved to the First Mover. The first cause. And thus, the final cause.

The problem, Mike, is that you lament the destruction of Thomistic thought (and the institutions that fostered it, like Notre Dame), and so the only place left where you can find Thomistic studies (which are needed to dialogue with the modern-day Averroes’ you met in Iran) is guess where? In the seminaries of the Traddies! And of course, Mike can’t address that fact, or it destroys his current thesis about Western Traddies.

Mike’s answer seems to be that there are a bunch of ‘despicables’ in The Church that aren’t buying the putative Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of The Beautiful Lady. And that these despicable Traddies (Latin Mass folks, for you who aren’t aware of anything recent) are the only roadblock to peace within the walls of Holy Rome. Don’t get me wrong. Mike sees plenty of evil in The Church that has come from Vatican II. But he can’t quite bring himself to believe that El Diablo might be at the heart of it.

He thinks that the incorrect implementation of that Council’s documents and proclamations are the heart of the matter. In other words, that individual Bishops (and their rebellious priests) are the problems there. Which is fine, as far as that goes. But have they done all this without the aid of El Diablo? Have all those Secretaries of State done all this without the aid of George Soros?

So Mike attacks the ventilator that keeps the patient alive, ignoring all the while the viral agent that has infected it. And the lab that produced it. Way down South in the Land of Diablo.

What then explains this line of thought? If Russia is Christian (and I will be the first to admit, the Eastern Orthodox are Christian, but still in rebellion to authentic authority), where does Fatima come into this thought? Let’s do a thought experiment here. Where, in the global scheme of things, where do you think the most prayers for the Consecration of Russia have come from for the past century?

Well, Portugal, sure. And by way of extrapolation, Brazil (Greater Portugal). But where else? Russia? No. No way. The people of Russia have been kept from this story since it first broke in 1917. And that’s not their fault. Chalk that up to their Orthodox clerics, who can read the handwriting on the walls of Constantinople (and Moscow). No, Fatima never happened, in their world. It’s all been a giant Vatican dezinformatsiya campaign, in their telling.

Now Mike is telling us that we, the Traddies who believe in the Fatima promises (and that the question of the Consecration of Russia), are the main problem in The Church. He’s echoing Pope Francis’ mantra that the unity of The Church is threatened by those who would wonder about those who can’t understand one simple question; where’s the promised peace?

Well, Mike, where is it?

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  1. Sheri

    Those of us who are not catholic have no idea what you’re talking about, but you do use a lot of words and I’m sure there’s something in there somewhere…..

  2. L Ron Hubbard alias John B()

    Aaaah … That photo is E Michael Jones … not John Kerry as I thought at first

    I could say something about Ianto’s dog, but I won’t (my thoughts are peppered through Ianto’s other posts but I definitely no longer have a dog in this and only wonder at others that still do)

    ‘…use a lot of words …”
    I generally read Ianto from back ‘page’ to front ‘page’ … if I get back to the first page, either I could follow his points and somewhat agree or (more likely) it was one of his shorter messages

    Given Briggs on vacation, I should have guessed Ianto would show up
    The song “One Tin Soldier” came into my mind

  3. Amateur Brain Surgeon


    Jones has several blind spots – especially when it comes to the 60s Synod. He truly believes that there was no doctrinal change realised in Dignatatis humane because it claimed there was no change and he is wrong about Russia being converted and has been banging on that for so long that even Sungensis sort of agreed with him in Culture Wars.

    He is messianic when it comes to his supporters and friend in Iran. He is an embarrassment in that he thinks Islamic History is so malleable.

    Raymond Ibrahim knows the truth about Ismde, not Jones.

    Jones thinks because he reads everything he understands it. He book on money is not wort the money

  4. Sheri!

    I agree with you!

    These effusions of words are exemplars for diatribes on the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

    Debates/discussions on the apparent controversies regarding sub-intra-meta-in-group rationalizations/justifications for liturgical/bureaucratic/textual/procedural modifications to something or other at some point in history with little to no effect on broader society seem like self-referential navel gazing accompanied by a running commentary on that self’s inner conversation about the navel in question.

    It suddenly hit me, skimming the multiple thousands of words: This is the exact same experience as “reading” Foucalt’s Pendulum by Umberto Eco.

    Which prompted a search for reviews of that brick-sized effusion of hundreds of thousands of words. Found one! Perfect:

    “One of those books where the author tediously says next to nothing, and all the semi-litterati can’t figure out what he’s trying to say, so they conclude he must be brilliant. A wasted effort by an otherwise talented (so I hear) author, and that portion of the gullible public that assumes that something profound is being said so long as they can’t understand it.”

  5. Hagfish Bagpipe

    Interesting comments, Mr. Watt, on an +++interesting+++ topic. I have Logos Rising on my bookshelf, not yet read. Reading TJRS (new three volume edition), read Barren Metal — that’s a good ‘un — and Degenerate Moderns. CW subscriber. Intend reading Libido Dominandi but I’m such a slow reader I’m afraid if I sat down to finish all the unread books in my stack by the time was finished the war would be over and I’d walk out into a smoking ruin, shouting — hey! where’d everyone go?

    You’ll all be glad to know that Mike and Ianto will be up at Briggs’ Northwoods Lake Lodge and Cabins with all of us other guests, and speaking on this very topic and then joining us in the library by the fireside for after dinner discussions. If that’s not enticement enough Watt always shows up to these affairs with a mixed case of obscure and excellent whiskies. By the time our rustic northwoods sojourn is over every obscure and tangled thing will have been pounded out into the finest sheet of gossamer gold. Call and reserve your cabin today.

  6. Hagfish Bagpipe

    Kent, granted, if it’s not your cup of tea then you won’t care for it. But if you like that sort of thing then it’s just the sort of thing for you. And it’s funny how those things can change. Some years ago I would have agreed with you. But now I find the topic engrossing. I’m sure you know how those things can go, over time. And who knows, maybe one day you too will find, almost against your will, that… oh yes, it can happen!

  7. C. P. Benischek

    First off, agreed, Clizbe. Can’t make heads nor tails of Mike Jones ramblings. Ianto’s a bit dense for me too but he gets this right: Fatima.

    Fatima is in a different class. Crystalline clear.

    V. Putin allegedly asked false pope Bergoglio about Our Lady of Fatima and Bergoglio (aka Antipope Francis, mon Sheri) said: “We will not speak of Fatima.”

    Agreed, Sheri, a word of context on this subject may be helpful here.

    Fatima was an apparition of Mary the Mother of God (Theotokos) over six months in 1917 to three shepherd children, on the 13th of each month May through October. (Also on Sunday August 19th.)

    On the 13th of July our Lady foretold the apostasy in the Church reaching to the highest levels. She gave a series of messages to Lucia, all of which Lucia later wrote down–with one becoming known as the Third Secret of Fatima.

    On the last of the apparitions a public miracle of stunning character occurred, the Miracle of the Sun, witnessed and documented by all (a massive crowd of 70,000 people) even the anti-Catholic press of the day. The latter went to mock because the 11 year old Lucia Dos Santos had predicted the miracle to the day and the hour.

    The other notable historical fact of the Fatima apparition is that our Lady requested that Russia be consecrated to Her Immaculate Heart, by the pope in union with all the bishops of the world. The Mother of Christ said world peace would follow the consecration; and conversely world carnage and the chastisement of nations by Russia “spreading her errors” would ensue if the pope and bishops failed to meet her request.

    This has never been done. Our Lady also foretold that it would be done, but “late.”

    I’d suggest reading up on the story. The best rendition of the facts, “just the facts, M’am,” is the beautifully written “Our Lady of Fatima,” by William Thomas Walsh (1947).

    The best historical geopolitical analysis is the large 3 volume work by Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinité.

    The best assessment of where we are now due to this dual failure to release the Third Secret in full by 1960, and the failure to consecrate Russia, was anticipated and given by Sr. Lucia of Fatima herself in her last published interview on St. Stephen’s Day Dec. 26 in 1957. Interview in full here as published in 1958.

    And Clizbe, the reason we have lockdowns is because of the antipope, the Catholic Spring Obama & Podesta brought about with the coup d’etat knocking out Pope Benedict.

    False pope Bergoglio collapsed the global resistance of the Church. Antipope Francis locked down Italy via the Italian bishops before the Italian State did.

    Presaging the actions of Dolan le Gros in New York who also shut down the churches before DiBlasio or Cuomo dared do so. And led the way for tge entire Church worldwide to cancel the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass for Easter of all times(!) and beyond, for a false plague.

    And as if on cue, Bergoglio declared a “moral duty of all Catholics” to take the poison death shot. And Dolan le Gros has forbidden any priest to write a letter in support of any Catholic who seeks a religious conscience-clause exemption to the poison death shot.

    You may mock the Church as having no tank divisions. But Bergoglio and his gay McCarrickan coven mocked the Church out of Her moral authority.

    To the ruin of countless persons, body (deathvaxxed) and soul. I know three persons who died in the past week including Fordham Jesuit Fr. Koterski and my own cousin who appear to have died from the shot. Massive brain bleed in cousin’s case, false vax 6 mos. ago; heart attack overnight on Enders Island, on retreat in the padre’s case, also took the false vax. Both were 67. The third case was the first cousin of my mechanic, fifty years old, who taking his son to Colorado College from abroad took shot one ‘to be a good soldier’; and shot two in Tampa, staying with cousins. Dead within two days of poison death shot 2.

    Ask the Chinese Catholics–murdered, tortured and gulaged–if having a Catholic pope matters. Or, we can ask them, “How do you like having a false pope, antipope ‘Francis’.”

    It’s an even better question for professional Catholic pundits, like E. M. J., but they won’t go there

  8. C. P. Benischek

    On the present day challenge, per Sr. Lucia of Fatima, that link didn’t go through. Sans Souci (which means, to quite bluegrass legend Peter Rowan: “No problem!”). Worth a read. For one she speaks plainly.

    Sister Lucy’s Last Public Interview – 1957

    Fr. Augustin Fuentes

    A reader recently noted that the interview Sister Lucy gave to Fr. Augustin Fuentes in 1957, is always partially reported, and asked TIA if we could post the full text. To assist in this request we are now posting the most complete text available of the 1957 interview with our own translation from the original Spanish. Fr. Augustín Fuentes was the Mexican priest named vice-postulator of the cause of beatification for Francisco and Jacinta. In that interview Sr. Lucy said that Our Lady told her: “The last means that God will give to the world for its salvation are the Holy Rosary and My Immaculate Heart.”

    This important conversation of December 26, 1957 was the last public interview of Sr. Lucy. After it, permission was refused for any other interviews and she was effectively silenced and completely hidden away for the next several decades.

    Another very jovial Sr. Lucy appeared 10 years later in 1967 during Paul VI’s visit to Fatima. This Sr. Lucy, square-faced, cheerful and robust – incredibly different from the oval faced, sad and pale Sr. Lucy who spoke to Fr. Fuentes – was seen more regularly starting in 1982, after John Paul II’s visit to Fatima. [See our Two Sister Lucys’ analysis]

    These are the authentic words of her 1957 conversation with Fr. Fuentes, which came from the records of the official archivist of Fatima, Fr. Joaquín María Alonso, CMF. Fr. Alonso spoke with Sr. Lucy and publicly testified that her statements to Fr. Fuentes in 1957 were genuine and true.

    This text is from his book, La verdad sobre el Secreto de Fátima, Fátima sin mitos [The Truth about the Secret of Fatima without Myths ]. The text has the approval and imprimatur of Archbishop Sánchez of Santa Cruz, Mexico.

    What follows is the literal translation of Fr. Fuentes’ text reporting what he heard “from the lips of” the seer of Fatima. TIA

    burbtn.gif – 43 Bytes

    Interview of December 26, 1957

    Speaking to the sisters of Motherhouse of the Missionaries of the Sacred Heart in Mexico on May 22, 1958, Fr. Fuentes said, “I want to tell you the last conversation I had with her [Sister Lucy], which was on December 26 of last year. It was in the convent, where I found her very sad, pale and drawn.”

    Sister Lucia in 1957

    A very grave Sister Lucia in 1957
    He then proceeded to read Sister’s Lucy’s words to him at the December 26, 1957, interview:

    “Father, the Blessed Virgin is very sad because no one has paid attention to her Message, neither the good nor the bad. The good, because they continue on the road of goodness, but without paying mind to this Message. The bad, because of their sins, do not see God’s chastisement already falling on them presently; they also continue on their path of badness, ignoring the Message. But, Father, you must believe me that God is going to punish the world and chastise it in a tremendous way.

    “The chastisement from Heaven is imminent. The year 1960 is on us, and then what will happen? It will be very sad for everyone, and far from a happy thing if the world does not pray and do penance before then. I cannot give more details, because it is still a secret. By the will of the Blessed Virgin, only the Holy Father and the Bishop of Fatima can know the secret. Both have chosen, however, not to open it in order not to be influenced by it. (1)

    “This is the third part of the Message of Our Lady, which still remains secret until 1960. Tell them, Father, that the Blessed Virgin said repeatedly – to my cousins Francisco and Jacinta as well as to me – that many nations would disappear from the face of the earth, that Russia would be the instrument of chastisement from Heaven for the whole world if the conversion of that poor Nation is not obtained beforehand. …”

    A decisive battle with the Devil

    Sr. Lucy also told me:

    Fr. Augustin Fuentes

    Fr. Augustin Fuentes
    “Father, the Devil is fighting a decisive battle against the Virgin and, as you know, what most offends God and what will gain him the greatest number of souls in the shortest time is to gain the souls consecrated to God. For this also leaves unprotected the field of the laity and the Devil can more easily seize them.

    ”Also, Father, tell them that my cousins Francisco and Jacinta made sacrifices because they always saw the Blessed Virgin was very sad in all her apparitions. She never smiled at us. This anguish that we saw in her, caused by offenses to God and the chastisements that threaten sinners, penetrated our souls. And being children, we did not know what measures to devise except to pray and make sacrifices. …”

    We cannot wait for Rome to speak

    Referring to the vision of Hell that Our Lady showed her and Jacinta and Francisco, she said:

    “For this reason, Father, it is my mission not just to tell about the material punishments that will certainly come over the earth if the world does not pray and do penance. No, my mission is to tell everyone the imminent danger we are in of losing our souls for all eternity if we remain fixed in sin.

    “Father, we should not wait for a call to the world from Rome on the part of the Holy Father to do penance. Nor should we wait for a call for penance to come from the Bishops in our Dioceses, nor from our Religious Congregations. No, Our Lord has often used these means, and the world has not paid heed. So, now each one of us must begin to reform himself spiritually. Each one has to save not only his own soul, but also all the souls that God has placed on his pathway.

    Two last remedies to save the world

    “Father, the Blessed Virgin did not tell me that we are in the last times of the world, but I understood this for three reasons:

    “The first is because she told me that the Devil is engaging in a battle with the Virgin, a decisive battle. It is a final battle where one party will be victorious and the other will suffer defeat. So, from now on, we are either with God or we are with the Devil; there is no middle ground.

    “The second reason is because she told me, as well as my cousins, that God is giving two last remedies to the world: the Holy Rosary and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. And, being the last remedies, that is to say, they are the final ones, means that there will be no others.

    Our Lady of Fatima wears a sad expression

    ‘Our Lady never smiled. She was always very sad’
    “And the third, because in the plans of the Divine Providence, when God is going to chastise the world He always first exhausts all other remedies. When He sees that the world pays no attention whatsoever, then, as we say in our imperfect way of talking, with a certain fear He presents us the last means of salvation, His Blessed Mother.

    If we despise and reject this last means, Heaven will no longer pardon us, because we will have committed a sin that the Gospel calls a sin against the Holy Spirit. This sin consists in openly rejecting – with full knowledge and will – the salvation that is put in our hands.

    “Also, since Our Lord is a very good Son, He will not permit that we offend and despise His Blessed Mother. We have as obvious testimony the history of different centuries where Our Lord has shown us with terrible examples how He has always defended the honor of His Blessed Mother.

    “Prayer and sacrifice are the two means to save the world. As for the Holy Rosary, Father, in these last times in which we are living, the Blessed Virgin has given a new efficacy to the praying of the Holy Rosary. This in such a way that there is no problem that cannot be resolved by praying the Rosary, no matter how difficult it is – be it temporal or above all spiritual – in the spiritual life of each of us or the lives of our families, be they our families in the world or Religious Communities, or even in the lives of peoples and nations.

    “I repeat, there is no problem, as difficult as it may be, that we cannot resolve at this time by praying the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary we will save ourselves, sanctify ourselves, console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls.

    “Then, there is devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, our Most Holy Mother, holding her as the seat of mercy, goodness and pardon and the sure door to enter Heaven. This is the first part of the Message referring to Our Lady of Fatima, and the second part, which is briefer but no less important, refers to the Holy Father.”
    1. In 1943, the Bishop of Fatima José Correia da Silva authorized Sister Lucia to write down the Third Secret during her bout with pleurisy, which threatened her life. On June 17, 1944, this document was officially placed in his hands. When Sister Lucia gave the letter to Bishop da Silva, she told him that he could read it, but he refused. Instead, he ordered the sealed document to be kept in the safe of the Episcopal Curia. Pope Pius XII also chose not to read the message, and left it in the care of Bishop da Silva until 1957, when the sealed envelope was sent to Rome at his request.

    Published by Tradition in Action, September 5, 2012


    P. S. Hagfish, I’m coming to the party and bringing the tequila.

  9. Hag,

    “I’m sure you know how those things can go, over time. And who knows, maybe one day you too will find, almost against your will, that… oh yes, it can happen!”

    Okay, I’ll be over in the corner, wearing a rain slicker so the verbal diarrhea erupting from the navel-gazers doesn’t stain my overalls, waiting for the instant that it all becomes clear. If that ever happens, it’s more likely mental deterioration, regression to adolescence, when navel-gazing effusions of literati seemed deep and meaningful–Herman Hesse, James Joyce, Jim Morrison, etc. Luckily, there have been decades of reality-infused living since then to disabuse those pretensions. The deep and unshakeable belief in Golitsyn, who, along with his pawn, James Angleton, has been well and truly debunked and destroyed, layered on top of the inscrutable intra-denominational bickering sours the taste of the verbal stew.

    In the meantime, I’m finding perfect intellectual intersectionality reading 1 star reviews of Prof. Eco’s magnum opus on GoodReads. Very apropos:

    “…it’s a free-form exercise in cramming as many pages as you can with verbose workouts about nothing in particular…. It’s a tiresome and dreary doorstop masquerading as a work of higher intellectualism. It’s a cult item written for a cult audience.”

    “An unreadable exercise of mental onanism by professor Umberto Ego….the huge amount of odd, obsolete, unused words in a page make the full thing unreadable.”

    “…prof. Ego, who is a hideous snob in his private life, insists that “only the readers of adequate culture should read my books”….

    “…after slogging through and struggling with this overrated doorstop I can’t fathom how anyone, not the most intellectual, not scholars of history or theology, let alone the general public, can derive the slightest bit of pleasure or appreciation for this quagmire of an encyclopedia of repetitive confusion…. Eco seems intent on letting everyone know how much he has studied every intricate detail in religion and history, and some of philosophy, science and mathematics regardless of how tedious all those details become when crammed together.”


  10. GP

    You are confusing your own lack of understanding for unintelligibility. Watt’s points are perfectly intelligible to myself. Perhaps you would do better by trying to research the allusions made rather than simply deciding that it’s nonsense.

  11. Amateur Brain Surgeon

    ABS has been a subscriber to “Culture Wars” since its initial iteration as “Fidelity” and Jones is never boring, just prolix.

    Right on his book shelf ABS can see “Slaughter of Cities, John Cardinal Krol and the Cultural Revolution, Degenerate Moderns, Dionysios Rising, and The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit and Jones has prolly written another book since ABS started typing this.

    Jones is a knee jerk papal loyalist – most men of his generation were raised that way (especially Irish ones) – and he can’t seem to escape the shackles of Papolatry but he has been consistently wrong about The 60s Synod (aka Vatican Two) and Catholic Traditionalists and he is wildly wrong about the Shiites.

    Yes, Russia did spread her errors


    and the time of Fatima is not over

    and America is now the Evil Empire which has positive law in favor of the sins crying to Heaven for vengeance:

    There are four sins crying to Heaven for vengeance and all four sins are the public policy of America, and all four sins are the favored objects of positive law in America.

    ?Remind me which one of the four “Catholic” Biden is against…

    ?Willful Murder  (Abortion, Unjust Wars, Drones, Assassinations)?

    The Sin of Sodom (So-called Gay marriage, the acceptance of sodomy as permissible and praise worthy)?

    Oppression of the Poor (Usury, which is state-sponsored theft of labor).?

    Defrauding Laborers of their Wages (Mass immigration which undermines the wage scale, closing manufacturing in America and relocating it overseas to be done by slaves)?

    America is Russia and although it is true that Pope Francis is right in much of his economic criticism of America his counsel of socialism as a solution is not only not reasonable it is contradictory to Catholic Doctrine.

  12. GP,

    “You are confusing your own lack of understanding for unintelligibility. Watt’s points are perfectly intelligible to myself.”

    No confusion on my part, whatsoever.

    Perfectly applicable critique from an Umberto Eco reader:

    “It’s a cult item written for a cult audience.”

    If you’re an insider, or have pretensions to be an insider, or find it desirable to be considered an insider, the effusive prose MUST be “intelligible” to you.

    For those who are not in “the cult,” there’s no reason whatsoever to expend any energy to “understand.”

    For outsiders, we do not have a clue what the issues are, who the players are, what the history of the dispute is, the stakes of the game, the spoils that will go to the winner, etc, etc, etc…nor do we care!

    To an outsider, it seems to be some sort of internecine quarrel over who gets the contents of some monastery’s wine cellar in settlement of a doctrinal dispute from 1175 AD.

    Highly recommend reading the reviews of Umberto Eco at the link above. Read the 5 stars, and contrast them with the 1 star reviews. It’s the exact same 2 sides of critique we see here: “A brilliance for the ages, deep insights” vs. “An unreadable exercise of mental onanism.”

  13. GP

    Every subject has its jargon. Not understanding that is fine. Commenting that you don’t understand it and therefore it’s nonsense is irksome.

  14. Thomas Alvarez

    Yes, creepy pseudo-intellectual EMJ, with a following of genuine White Supremacists and neo-NAZI wannabes (just as repugnant as AntiFa freaks and the neo-Marxist [Only] Black Lives Matter racists) is the guy we need to consult on world issues and culture. NOT!

  15. GP,

    “Every subject has its jargon.”

    Yes, that’s my point–except this is NOT a “subject.” It is some sort of insider belief system unintelligible to outsiders.

    As the Umberto Eco reader opined: “It’s a cult item written for a cult audience.”

    It would seem that a cult should keep its insider discussions to forums limited to cult members.

    If non-members point out the obtuseness of the cult’s discussions aired in a (semi-)public forum, then members may want to consider the wisdom of publicly airing their insider debates.

    Your tendency to be irked is noted and regretted.

  16. buckyinky

    Thank you for this article (Sheri, it’s not necessary to comment on things you admittedly don’t understand).

    I’m looking forward to the promised final version of Jones’ article on the recent motu proprio in September’s CW, but I have little hope that it will clear up the confusion I’m experiencing surrounding Jones’ take on it. Why does Jones not see that those who attend/attended Mass under the Ecclesia Dei indult were doing precisely the opposite of what he accuses them of? That is, these souls were endeavoring, often under great pains, to remain faithful to the Church, and away from schism, using legitimate means offered to the by the sign of unity, the Pope.

    ones’ take on Fatima is another thing that confuses me the more I explore it (as an aside, though perhaps more pertinent than that, is Robert Sungenis’ 180 on the Fatima consecration in the recent past, under the influence (or so it appears to me) of Jones.

    The connection Watt makes in this article between his takes on the motu proprio and Fatima is both interesting and reasonable, though I would like to hear Jones elaborate more on these things with an interlocutor who pushes back a little bit more than his typical interviewers, such as Peter Helland or Tim Kelly.

  17. Hagfish Bagpipe

    Kent: “It’s a cult item written for a cult audience.”

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but I have the idea you are a Muslim, a Libertarian, and a CIA agent.

    Cult… hmm…

  18. Dennis

    Two things stand out to me both from this article (and prior Ianto takes) and recent EMJ interviews:

    1. EMJ has a big bug up his arse about Trad Catholics and the TLM (And I can’t quite understand why he is so vehement about it, to the point where in interviews he seethes and nearly froths at the mouth with anger at the Trads/TLM. Until his recent responses to the motu proprio, I had thought EMJ was rather sympathetic to them, at least intellectually, though I knew he was basically a normie Novus Ordo guy in practice), whom he accuses of fomenting schism (as Ianto points out, an odd charge, since JPII and Benedict XVI both made overtures to accommodate the TLM, the latter most of all – so were those Popes themselves encouraging schism?). To me it is Vatican II (or at least the amorphous “Spirit of Vatican II” claimed by radicals as a license to destroy all Catholic Tradition over the last 5+ decades) and the imposition of the “Protestantized” (its architect, Bugnini, himself admitted this as a goal) rite of the Novus Ordo which could rightly be charged with fomenting schism within the Church.

    2. Ianto has a big bug up his arse concerning Russia and Orthodoxy (“Byzantinism” I think is a catch-all term he’s used often before to describe them), both of which he still seems to view in antiquated Cold War terms. Whatever relevance Fatima had in 1917 through the end of the Cold War vis-a-vis the failure to enact the Consecration – ditto Golitsyn and his Cold War theories – I fail to see the urgent relevance now that Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church (which was deeply compromised by complicity with Bolshevism, to the point that the Patriarch was himself a KGB agent) are no longer controlled by Bolshevism. The present US Globohomo Rainbow Tranny BLM Empire arguably spreads even more total errors – moral, political, religious, social, economic, etc. – worldwide than the USSR ever did. Perhaps it is the USA, not Russia, in need of Consecration (and Exorcism) at this point.

  19. Dennis

    Re. Umberto Eco and “Foucault’s Pendulum”: One thing that seems to be missing from the above discussion is that much of the more recondite passages and abstruse subject matter were written that way out of humor. Eco didn’t mean for them to be “understood” or “make sense” in any ordinary way, or be taken seriously. He was poking fun at a certain conspiratorial mindset, and at a way of writing so obscurely (particularly self-published writers with logorrhea in need of an editor) – while pretending to great intellectual depth and profundity – that one’s writing could be taken to mean absolutely anything, when perhaps it really means nothing much at all in the end.

  20. Hagfish,

    Hmmm…ad hominem much?

    Hard to focus on the discussion at hand? Throw up smokescreens much?

    I have several books in print, an author’s page on Amazon, a personal website, a book website, multiple TV episodes about me and my work, my life, and my operations, commercial podcasts based on my experience exposing a conman posing on Fox News as a CIA officer for 13 years, an extensive bibliography of commentary and articles on multiple “conservative” websites (original writing group on Breitbart, Newsmax, etc.) on political, social, cultural, intelligence, counter-terrorism, Islamic extremism, security and other issues, and it’s all in my real name. I provide links to it. It’s all publicly available.

    Here’s the most recent podcast on Spyscape: https://spyscape.com/podcast/cia-more-like-con

    I discuss esoteric subjects in the right venue. I don’t confuse general interest topics with specific (“cult”) targeted topics, whether its personally meaningful, or not.

    I’m assuming your name is NOT “Hagfish,” but something else. Not that it matters, I’m not attacking you personally. My comments, in my true name and identity, are in response to smug ad hominem assertions that lack of understanding of the prose in question is due to ignorance, or something.


  21. Shecky R

    Except that the true goal of Evangelicals, as repeatedly demonstrated every waking hour of each new greedy & gluttonous day, is not to go to heaven, but to die with the most chips. So ‘fess up, Grasshoppa… and, repent.

  22. Russell Haley

    Edward Sri and Curtis Martin discuss the cycles in the old testament:

    The mean time between peaks is around 300 years.

    The sweeping Muslim invasions in the middle ages taught the world about the evil of Islam but we seem to have forgotten. Tyranny can never be from God because Yahweh is the God of Life.

    I realized the West was in trouble when the Canadian government decided sodomy is the same as procreation and deemed it “marriage”.

    It’s worth noting that in November 2018 a Christian missionary was shot dead by what is believed to be one of the last tribes in the world to be contacted by outsiders. Could it be that that particular incident was the linchpin and the word of the Lord has been spread to all the corners of the earth? https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7791812/us-missionary-shot-dead-arrows-remote-island-tribe-christianity/

    I think this cycle will be the most important because the entire world is watching on YouTube. I think vexxine is designed to subvert all of humanity to tyranny for the next two thousand years. The vast majority of the population will be required to get 6-8 month shots and if you subvert the “government” they will deny you the serum. All babies will be given shots at birth under the guise of protecting them (from a virus that doesn’t kill you unless you take the vexxines). Those of us that refuse will be hunted down and killed by the masses because the government will convince the vexxin-ed that we are responsible. Why do I think that? Because it’s already happening!

    I look forward to Martyrdom. Deus Vult.

  23. L Ron Hubbard alias John B()

    Shecky R


    Do you KNOW where you’re commenting?

  24. L Ron Hubbard alias John B()

    SheckleR EVANGELICALS? Do you KNOW where you’re commenting?

  25. Mottram's Tortoise

    I found the post positively fascinating. Although I miss many of the allusions still. I appreciate all of the research Watt, Jones, and some of the comment authors have done on their own and are willing to summarize and share. There is much to history that I need to unlearn and this site is a crash course.

  26. John

    “What then explains this line of thought? If Russia is Christian (and I will be the first to admit, the Eastern Orthodox are Christian…”

    From a traditional Catholic perspective, it can be stated, unequivocally, that the Eastern Orthodox are Christians. Notice that Watt does not extend this to include Protestants, as, from the time of the Revolt, up until the “almighty council,” the Catholic Church considered Protestants to be doubtfully Christian. This was evidenced by the old pastoral practice of conditionally baptizing Protestant converts. Orthodox Christians may not subscribe to Thomistic definitions of the Sacraments, but I imagine that they would agree that a “Mystery (as they refer to Sacraments)” is “an action that accomplishes that which it signifies.” In the case of Baptism, there is a character imprinted on the soul which makes the newly baptized, a Christian, with the infusion of the Theological Virtues. In addition, in the properly disposed, the forgiveness of sins is accomplished. Protestants believe that baptism is purely symbolic of an interior conversion that has already taken place. The “rite” of baptism, if it can even be called that, is pretty much just a public photo op. Nothing actually happened. Vatican II, in a nutshell, can be summed up in the fact that these photo ops are now considered to be “definitely valid,” so long as the denomination believes in the doctrine of the Trinity. Truth takes a back seat to “feelings.”

    The documents of Vatican II seem like “unreadable exercises in [synodal] onanism,” to me. The 4 most authoritative documents dealt with ecclesiology, the Church’s relationship to the modern world, Divine Revelation, and liturgy (as opposed to sacramental theology). In the most explosive document, the council came pretty close to a ringing endorsement of the post-French Revolution view of religious freedom. These topics have varying levels of academic importance, but they don’t have much that is of interest to the Catholic who just wants to get into Heaven. Incidentally, the council did not produce anything about the Sacraments (which Catholics consider to be rather important), aside from mandating that the rites be updated to supposedly make them more relevant to modern man. Also, nothing was offered concerning morality, even while the old moral consensus was disintegrating before the bishops’ eyes. Pope John Paul II gave us what the council should have in “Veritatis splendor,” but, judging by how it has been forgotten over the last eight years, his efforts were “too little, too late.”

    We had 35 years, spanning 2 Pontificates, with Popes who sincerely wanted to correct what they saw as errors in interpreting Vatican II. They failed. We cannot but admit that Vatican II means whatever Walter Kasper and his cronies say it means. For us who reject that, what Dogma do we reject? The vast majority of bishops have been wrong before, and they can be wrong again. I am happy to be in communion with what the Church has always taught, and to “work out my salvation, with fear and trembling.” And I hope to be joined by anyone who is not yet part of Christ’s fold.

  27. Amateur Brtain Surgeon

    EMJ, with a following of genuine White Supremacists .

    For many years, Jones has been saying that a “white” man is a protestant who does not go to Church; that is, he denies white is a legitimate category and. as he points out, it is not helpful to soi disant whites

  28. Amateur Brain Surgeon

    Theree is n to om sword- not one- which is binding on Catholics

    Taking conciliar custom into consideration and also the pastoral purpose of the present Council, the sacred Council defines as binding on the Church only those things in matters of faith and morals which it shall openly declare to be binding.

    That is, nothing in Vatican Two is binding.

    As for other communities and putative churches?

    … And just as this one Church cannot err in faith or morals, since it is guided by the Holy Ghost; so, on the contrary, all other societies arrogating to themselves the name of church, must necessarily, because guided by the spirit of the devil, be sunk in the most pernicious errors, both doctrinal and moral.

    Infallible council of Trent

    Dr Jones, especially in John Cardinal Krol and The Cultural Revolution, is four square behind Vatican Two and agrees with the abdicated Pope that it was necessary.

    As the kids says, whatever

  29. Amateur Brain Surgeon

    Scroll down to page 87 and see if Dr Jones is even rational entering into this sectarian conflict on the side of a small minority who can not be thought to be objectively aligned with Orthodo Catholics.

    Yes, Islam and the Catholic Church have been allies when it comes to pro-life/anti abortion matters before the UN but contrary to Vatican Two we (Catholics and Muslims) do not worship the same God.

  30. Amateur Brain Surgeon

    Ppg 316-317 produceds a quote Dr Jones has forgotten about . It is a quote with massive implications for the western world

    Jean Bernard (International Office of Film) in 1962 made this analysis in public:

    By distracting a person , by engaging his attention with recital, by astounding him with an artistic production, by making the attack at the moment of his least resistance, namely as his bedtime hour after a wearisome day, by using as an accomplice – where there is a question of films or TV- darkness and the peculiar atmosphere that derives from a spectacle which has been experienced in common, the mass media encourage the beginning of a semi-conscious state and of receptivity which opens wider the door for any and every suggestion from what we call “clandestine propaganda..”

    Jones doesn’t supply the full quote but notes that the propaganda techniques learned during WW2 had, by the early 60s (gee, wasn’t there a Synod in Rome in this years?) been incorporated into all of the western countries with devastating consequences especially for the moral life of the young …(Jones now picks back up the quote)

    “… whose intellectual sloth is already inclined in its passive receptivity. This danger consists in seeing our intelligence, our will, our conscience, in a word, our person invaded and hopelessly surrounded, violated, subdued by ideas and concepts that can be imposed on us almost against our will if such is the intent of those who have control of the means of communication. Confronted by the fascination of a moving picture man no longer enjoys his full liberty.

    It is not the Sunnis, it is not the Shites, who control the means of communication.

    In October 1976, Leo Pfeffer took to the podium in Philadelphia, to receive an award from The Society for the Scientific Study of Religion, and he took personal credit for the revolution in morals and law and the establishment he defeated (a country based on pan-Protestant reading of of Christianity whose assumptions, Jones avers, favored. in imperfect form a rough approximation of the moral law.

    Pfefer changed all of that with a into help form The SCOTUS, Media etc and he has changed America into a individualistic, rationalistic, and hedonistic country.

    Give credit where is is due..

  31. Dennis

    ABS: EMJ is debating Jared Taylor this Saturday at 4PM (https://www.bitchute.com/video/M71eSvTUqGxd/). As you said, he repeatedly rejects “white” as a category (seeing it as something that has displaced religious, particularly Catholic, and ethnic identities. I think he’s wrong on that – “white” is simply a broader category within which are various religious and ethnic identities. EMJ sounds silly when he says stuff like, “You’re not a ‘white’ guy, you’re a Catholic, Croatian, Italian,” etc., as if one can’t be both!) and rejects racial politics of any kind.

    Those who accuse him of being a “white supremacist” simply aren’t paying attention.

  32. C. P. Benischek

    But Clizbe, for such an accomplished dude, upon which we all agree, you duck Hag’s q.! However unfair….

    Are you really a muslim libertarian?

    Do you see any contradictions w that?

  33. Benishek,

    Thanks so much for your evident interest. My background is an open book. Multiple interviews, stories, commentary, op/eds, TV episodes, etc., etc. available for any and all to review. You’re welcome to contact me for references to sites that can guide you in your quest: kent@kentclizbe.com

    In the meantime, here are some good, and some slightly less good, references concerning my activities, life, actions, philosophy, results, and much more:

    Newsmax columns on politicization of the FBI and CIA during Russiagate:

    Op to rescue hostages, American missionary couple in Mindanao:

    Op to reveal Fox News faker:

    Mindanao op, by Mark Bowden:

    Op to reveal Hizballah connections of Virginia Republican State Delegate David Ramadan (interview with Frank Gaffney):

    My Breitbart article on David Ramadan:

    Breitbart article on the need to withdraw from Afghanistan (2010):

    Organization to expose and reject Turkish Gulen Movement charter school application:

    Hope that helps.

    My background has absolutely nothing to do with any of the points being discussed in this thread, though.

    All the best.

  34. Amateur Brain Surgeon

    Dear Dennis Thank you for the link . This should be fun 🙂

  35. Hagfish Bagpipe

    Kent, not an ad hominem, just trying to understand where you’re coming from. You come in here and go off on a book review, which book you haven’t read, and then trash it by quoting bad reviews for an entirely different book not even mentioned. Curious. I got the idea you were a Muslim from your book, where you say you converted, and you did work for the CIA, and I got the idea you were a Libertarian from your comments, or association with Stan Evans, who I believe is Libertarian. Maybe that’s wrong, but it seemed a possible explanation for your hostility to a book of Catholic, Christian history and beliefs.

  36. Amateur Brain Surgeon

    Dear Dennis. Thanks for the link. This should be fun 🙂

  37. C-Marie

    I used to wonder how the follwing scripture could be … but the internet seems to be the answer.

    From Russell Haley comment:
    “I think this cycle will be the most important because the entire world is watching on YouTube.”

    “3And I will give powerunto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    The Witnesses Killed and Raised
    7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

    11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.” Revelation Chapter 11.

    God bless, C-Marie

  38. Dennis

    ABS: Yes, should be interesting. Not sure if BitChute is where the live stream will be though – that’s just a link to the announcement of the debate on Frodi Midjord’s channel (I usually hate watching live-streams on computer though, and will probably just wait until later and download it to a flash drive and watch on the regular TV with Blu-Ray player). They were supposed to debate in person in Zagreb last year, but that got kiboshed for the same reason as everything else in life for the past 18 months.

  39. Oldavid

    Ole Emick Jones can be a bit interesting but once you’ve heard a few of his interviews (pontifications) you’ve pretty much heard them all. Not like our Lanto (What?)… there’s an interesting side view, or conundrum, in every paragraph.

    I’ve tried to quietly challenge his oft repeated definition of Logos (or lowgarse, as his speech would have it) as “the order of the Universe” at first in a private email then in a public comment on one of his videos but he did not take up the challenge.

    I contend that “order” is not some “stuff” hanging around in the aether independent of things to be ordered; in sum, order is the arrangement of “things” physical or metaphysical. As such, it seems to me that Emick’s “the order of the Universe” is in and of the things ordered, i.e. you can’t have order without things to be ordered so that Jonesy’s Logos could not exist without a Universe to order.

    It’s a weird and subtle kind of “neo”pantheism fairly consistent with “neo”Modernism that assumes a kind of dialectical “becoming”, and which may go some way in explaining his apparent antipathy to the “thesis” (the Traditions of Apostolic origin) that are supposed to be “synthesised” with the (not) novel “antithesis” unleashed, most notably, in the waffle that came out of Vatican Council II.

    What our most solicitous Great Mother said at Fatima has been rendered as “Russia will spread its errors” or, as I think more appropriately, the “errors in Russia will spread over the World…” Anyhow, Russia has not been Consecrated to the Immaculate Heart; the poor ole Ruskies (and East Europeman and Chinaman and other Asiaman) has not been converted and they are not yet the Apostles of a revived Christianity putting to flight the disciples of the Usurper.

  40. RB

    Warning: This comment is off-topic

    Whether or not “Foucault’s Pendulum” is of interest only to a small set of people would not seem to be a question that could be decided by taking the opinions of some group of people (group D) who did not like the book, and attributed their dislike to a feeling of not being a member of the group (group L) to which the novel appealed. Whether or not members of this first group D have such a feeling is a question that _can_ be decided on the evidence given, but that says nothing about whether this feeling relates in any way to reality about the book or about group L.

    As long as we are taking evidence from goodreads reviews, since the average rating for “Foucault’s Pendulum” on goodreads is 3.9, it would seem that the negative feelings of the people in group D do not seem to have brought down the general opinion of the book very far– it would seem, on this evidence, that the general impression of the book on that site is rather favorable than not.

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