Coronavirus Update XXV: The Suppression Of Hydroxychloroquine & Other Conspiracies

Coronavirus Update XXV: The Suppression Of Hydroxychloroquine & Other Conspiracies

The first section of this are fun conspiracies to highlight the political crisis. The second section are the numbers showing the medical crisis is over. The third section discusses the the future of the asinine political crisis.

Shhh, Don’t Tell Anybody

It’s conspiracy theory week. Recall when reading that scientists tell us not all theories are false.

My contacts haven’t been idle, but then they are always busy. Nevertheless, we’ve all seen videos galore of twerking nurses and doctors frolicking in empty wards. Perhaps lulls between surges and blowing off steam. Then. Now? Likely this fellow’s observation is true.

How about the one where they will force vaccines on us? They’d never do that, would they, force you to “be safe”? “Coronavirus restrictions will remain if large numbers refuse vaccine, warns UK taskforce” (Yahoo News).

Coronavirus restrictions will remain in place if large numbers of people refuse to take a COVID-19 vaccine, a UK taskforce has warned.

There are fears that millions of Britons may opt out of being vaccinated for coronavirus, with many swayed by debunked anti-vax claims spread online.

A number of scientific studies have debunked previous claims by anti-vaxxers, including the false claim that the MMR jab can cause autism.

But two recent surveys show a large proportion of Britons are either against a coronavirus vaccine or unsure about taking one.

On Monday, the government announced that it had signed deals with pharmaceutical companies to secure 90 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines.

Whether or not MMR can cause autism, which I think it does not, this is irrelevant to whether a coronadoom vaccine will be safe. There has never been a common cold vaccine in humans, especially of the type being touted, and we all know how cocky and over-certain scientists are.

Beside, why a vaccine? It isn’t necessary to “control” the pandemic. This pandemic, like all pandemics, is going away. Why insist on a vaccine for this one, and no others? It appears the propaganda line is that herd immunity is impossible, which is itself impossible. What’s really in this vaccine that might soon become a “must have” to buy, sell, or travel?

At least the makers of vaccines don’t have to worry. They’ve been indemnified. Something goes wrong, nobody can sue. Bubble indemnity: Big Pharma firms will NOT be held accountable for side effects of Covid vaccine, a not unusual practice, as it turns out.

A senior executive for pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca has confirmed that his company cannot face legal action for any potential side effects caused by its Covid vaccine. Those affected will have no legal recourse.

AstraZeneca is one of 25 pharmaceutical companies worldwide already testing their Covid vaccines on humans, in preparation for injecting hundreds of millions of people. These are flush times for Britain’s largest pharmaceutical company, worth something in the order of £70 million. They have just reported bumper profits of $12.6 billion in the last six months alone.

Must be nice to be a pharmaceutical.

Just as this typical, expected pandemic is on its way out, we find those in charge of us demanding ever greater restrictions. Why? Tyrant Matt “Soy For Me” Hancock has banned tea parties in England. You’re not allowed to go to somebody else’s home. Tyrant Anthony “Never Shake Hands Again” Frauduci now says people must wear googles, and his sycophants and the power-hungry rush to embrace the “suggestion.” Nancy “I’ll Have Another” Pelosi now requires masks on the wallet-grabbers on the House floor.

Perhaps this headlines is a clue: RICH GET RICHER Amazon sales jumped 40%, Facebook profit increased by 98% and Apple posted more than $11 BILLION profit in last quarter. That, plus the myriad headlines speaking of the enormous number of small business closures.

On and on.

What accounts for this level of bloody minded idiocy in our leaders? Playing dress-up in the streets, they promise, will “keep us safe”. Threatening lockdowns unless citizens line up for their shots is extortion. They have no qualms about saying it, either. It’s hard not to consider the wilder theories about what this rushed-to-veins vaccines will do to people. They are all surely not true theories, but they will be believed, and not irrationally, given the behavior of our leaders.

Recall how, for years, propagandists and government assured us Russia stole the election for Trump? Remember that Trump was impeached? Both organs of control, propagandists and government, took foreign involvement seriously. They said they believed. Or did they lie? No? Then how about this?

Ha ha ha ha (in Chinese).

Then comes the most bizarre conspiracy. The forbidding of any positive news on hydroxychloroquine (HCQ). Even our own Frauduci forgot his earlier peer-reviewed praise of the drug, before now poo-pooing it.

It started—did we already forget?—by a mysterious article put into Lancet, the British medical politics magazine (it’s editor is a hip, raving progressive). The peer-reviewed article showed HCQ didn’t work.

It was a fraud, with faked data, and written by a “sex worker”, among others. Spergs discovered the fraud, exposed it, and the journal was forced to retract the paper.

Nobody has satisfactorily ever answered why it happened, though. Why go to so much trouble to fake a study on a drug long in use the world over? Who paid for the faked study? Why–and how—did the Lancet come to publish it? Who benefits from the attempts to ban this cheap, non-patented potentially curative drug? Besides Big Pharma and government, that is.

Don’t keep reading until you have answered these questions. At this point, you have to remind yourself that history did not only happen in history. Startling events, schemes, conspiracies, cabals, frauds, plots are not only things of the past. The events we’ve seen don’t all need to be conspiracies, however. It’s sufficient enough that the people lording over us believe the same, and therefore tend to act the same.

How about that big press conference by a suite of doctors on the benefits, and risks, of HCQ. Hours worth of material.

Big Tech, along with the usual propaganda outlets, began purging the press conference almost immediately after happened. They just didn’t purge the docs at this conference, but others who discussed HCQ positively. A similar thing happened earlier with two docs in California who presented accurate statistics on this and other pandemics, statistics which suggested what readers here already know. Many such cases.

Here was one of the HCQ docs:

Here was another:

Ohio banned its use. Not years ago: the state has allowed the drug for years. It bans it now. Why?

Todaro has an article on this subject, which begins with this quote from Marcia Angell, former editor-in-chief of the NEJM, author of The Truth About the Drug Companies: “Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, this industry uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the U.S. Congress, the Food and Drug Administration, academic medical centers, and the medical profession itself.”

This is not happening only in the States:

HCQ is now, after years of safe use, a poison in England. But only from 23 July to 22 October 2020, after which it will be okay again. Oddly specific, no?

Then some guy named Harvey Risch, a well known doctor and epidemiologist, slipped one past the goalie, and was able to get an article in Newsweek, of all places. “The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It“.

I am usually accustomed to advocating for positions within the mainstream of medicine, so have been flummoxed to find that, in the midst of a crisis, I am fighting for a treatment that the data fully support but which, for reasons having nothing to do with a correct understanding of the science, has been pushed to the sidelines.

It is a very long article for a news magazine, filled with pointers to papers showing the efficacy (and weaknesses) of the drug. That is got into a prog outlet is what is curious. Maybe the magazine’s editor got shafted by a pharmaceutical once.

Finally, the strange insistence on closing both bars and churches, while allowing everything else. The Godmother wouldn’t allow chicken wings to be classed as foods in his efforts to keep NY bars closed. Supreme Cuck John Roberts ruled churches are a no-no, while casinos are just fine, in the great state of Nevada. Plus the Church’s own limp-wristed response. Is it only a coincidence that these are the places people gather to discuss how evil and feckless government is?

The Numbers

Sources: daily tests, CDC official toll number one, number two (CDC has two official sources that have differences). The media reports are always greater than CDC numbers.

Finally, a small fraction of good news. The daily number of coronadoom tests.

Last week I said if trends continued, which I thought they would, we’d be at a million tests a day by last Friday. It was just under 720 thousand. I’m delighted to report I was wrong! Tests finally started to decrease. Not by much, not enough, but some.

This is great because these are the number of daily tests, tests reported in the 24-hour period. These tests are discovering infections, some past some present, but the media reports these as “new” “cases”, which is medical malpractice of the first order. People hear “case” and they imagine ventilators and gravestones, instead of just mild, even unnoticeable, symptoms, which occur in most people.

Now that testing has decreased ever so slightly, the media has switched from reporting “new” “cases” to total “cases”, because it’s becoming harder to make “new” “cases” sound scary when they are on the decrease, because of decreased testing. But totals can only go up (without corrections), and increasing numbers can always be made to sound scary.

What else decreases when tests decrease besides “new” “cases”? Reported deaths. Here’s the CDC’s two official sources on reported weekly deaths.

The total is 139 thousand, which is adjusted from time to time, as we’ll see in a moment. It is anyway clear the reported deaths are on the decrease, too.

We still have the problem of dying with versus dying from. The only real way now to distinguish these, or to see the real import of coronadoom, is to look at the weekly all-cause deaths, i.e. the total deaths from any cause whatsoever.

As always, the dots are the last three weeks, recalling that the CDC says it can take up to 8 weeks to accumulate all deaths, but that most are found by 3. The dashed line is all cause deaths minus official coronadoom deaths. Notice that one CDC source has the dashed line above. Meaning attributed coronadoom deaths are now in the “noise”. And that, for whatever reason, the second official source inside the CDC, the one that does not track COVID separately, is finding fewer dead bodies. Curious.

In any case, the crisis, a lot of it man- and woman-made, is over. The medical crisis, that is. The political crisis is stronger than ever.

Recall, too, the strange low number of deaths at the third week. This could be late reporting, or real (the first and second weeks at the end are surely late reporting). If it’s real, it means all cause deaths are now lower than usual. We’ll see in a couple of weeks whether this holds up. In any case, it is still a sign now that the medical crisis is at worst not worrisome.


In the States we still have mask madness, with male and female Karens screeching at people for not wearing masks. For which there is no good medical reason for healthy people to wear: this is what the review of all mask studies found. Good luck convincing our dear leaders of that, though.

In the States and England, that is. In The Netherlands we find calm: The land with no face masks: Holland’s top scientists say there’s no solid evidence coverings work and warn they could even damage the fight against Covid-19.

Yes, Sweden, too, had no mask madness nor lockdowns and did fine: Sweden Unveils ‘Promising’ Covid-19 Data as New Cases Plunge. The US should have acted like 30 spread out Swedens.

Also this: Sweden’s Actual COVID-19 Results Compared to What Modelers Predicted in April.

Total COVID-19 deaths in Sweden stand at 5,700, nearly 90,000 less than modelers predicted. Hospitals were never overrun. Daily deaths in Sweden have slowed to a crawl. The health agency reports no new ICU admissions.


To counter that, we have the direct scientific evidence of the election of Donald Trump, which has driven many insane. English speakers, wherever they are, are prone to bouts of madness like this. So masks may be with us for some time to come. Maybe even after the miracle new vaccine is introduced: Even if there’s a coronavirus vaccine next year, don’t expect to throw away your mask and stop social distancing, a top vaccine developer says.

Australia is going nuttier. Now people can’t go more than three miles from their home. The virus must get tired after that distance. Only one per house can shop, no recreational activities allowed, a 8 PM curfew, and lots more. Masks are, of course, mandatory. Australia had 232 deaths attributed to coronadoom. Probably more to car crashes.

How about those over-counts of deaths: Texas Downgrades COVID Death Toll After Error Wrongly Attributes Hundreds Of Deaths To COVID. And what about under-counting mild infections? Antibody tests do not pick up people who had mild coronavirus, Oxford study suggests.

This: Actual deaths due to COVID are some 54% or 63% lower than implied by the standard excess deaths measure, and reported excess deaths likely include a significant number of non-COVID deaths.

The CDC admits what we have been telling you since the beginning: ‘I Think You’re Correct’ About Inflated COVID Death Statistics.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield acknowledged Friday that the number of COVID-19 deaths could be inflated where someone who had the virus actually died from something else, but it was recorded as a COVID death…

“[Giroir] acknowledges that the statistics he’s getting from the states are inflated. We found that the governor of Colorado, who was a Democrat, actually did research on this and found he had to get rid of 12% of the deaths that were recorded in the state,” Luetkemeyer said…

The CDC director said that the same thing happened in the early days of the HIV epidemic.

“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes too. Early in the HIV epidemic, somebody may have a heart attack but also have HIV. The hospital would prefer the DRG for HIV because there is greater reimbursement…”

Did somebody say greater reimbursement? I put this here and not in the conspiracy theory section, because, yes, even the “CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths“. Golly.

You probably won’t remember, but at the beginning of this we did a Bayes theorem calculation about the probability you’d die. Test error plays a big part in this in falsely inflating the probability of death or illness.

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  1. Sheri

    Why do they care if people are vaccinated? Just refuse treatment to those who are not. Easy—kills the opposition, just like any cruel, evil dictatorship does. Perfect for today’s commie lovers.

    Bobby Kennedy Jr will find a way and sue the Pharma companies. He can sue a gnat for causing cancer and win. Never fear, Kennedy the magnificent is out there for you.

    Remember the vaccine for swine flu? Guillain-Barre syndrome, anyone?

    I said when this started there would NEVER be a cheap, already available treatment. $$$$$$ signs everywhere. Remind me again why Bernie Madoff is in jail? His “victims” were voluntary. The government has a gun pointed at your heads. Armed robbery.

    Twitter wants you DEAD. Repeat as needed. Actually, the Democrats, Facebook, all want you DEAD. Repeat as needed. (Twitter does allow articles on how peach pits cure cancer—or kill you if you poison yourself with the “cure”. I told you, Twitter wants you dead.)

    Part of the problem with hydroxycholoroquine is the lack of push-back. No ads calling the FDA a KILLER for allowing the drug. No killing more black African deaths by pulling the drug and letting them die of malaria (hey, we used DDT bans for that purpose. History can repeat itself.) No one will cry “racist” —it’s only Africa, after all. People with lupus and RA still get the stuff–let them live in hell by pulling the medication. Who cares about sick people anyway???? MAKE THIS REAL and it will end immediately.

    Same answer as to why can’t we open churches and bars but protesters can be in the streets as is the answer to why aren’t Muslims discriminated against: Church members don’t burn your house down and shoot your dog. Mobs do. COWARDICE—it’s always the answer to these questions. If Christians burned down houses, churches would open.

    Remember, Covid without testing is just a respiratory illness. Also, science bad if it makes Orange Man look good. Truth is all about getting rid of Orange Man.

  2. John Garrett

    Five stars for Briggs.

  3. Brian (bulaoren)

    If Joe Biden is elected in November, will the United States of America collapse, irretrievably into chaos, with a horrible president, or due to a horrible president?

  4. John B()

    Brian – LOL

    IF … Because of the virus called Marxism

  5. Stan Young

    Your last figure looks like harvesting. Future deaths are brought forward in time. Spike in deaths followed by a decrease in deaths.

  6. LC

    Just a thought:

    This is not “politically correct” but in watching Congressman John Lewis’ numerous funeral processions and eulogies, we noticed the many people present, the lack of physical distancing, and the number of items shared while mourners were at the various ceremonies.

    For example, July 30th at the Atlanta church, numerous people used and touched the podium and the microphones. When people speak into microphones, aren’t they automatically letting some saliva slip from their mouths? It is especially evident when people are nervous, upset, tearful, or excited.

    Even the politicians present at the funeral and giving eulogies were not that concerned about their speeches creating any type of released microbes into the air. Nor were they concerned about self-adjusting the microphones (former President Obama did appear a bit trepid) so their speeches could be better heard.

    Whether a family member, an elderly friend, or a politician, these items were never wiped down in-between speakers (or at least it was never evident to the viewer).

    In addition, people were sitting in the pews sometimes apart…and sometimes quite crowded together. (When Speaker Pelosi asked her fellow politicians to stand and be applauded/acknowledged for their attendance by the mourners, they seemed to be quite close to one another.)

    Yet, the average American who wants a funeral for a loved one who has passed from Covid-19, pre-existing conditions, old-age, accident, or … is told not to plan a viewing or a ceremony, especially not with too many mourners present.

    Why isn’t the average American permitted to grieve the loss of their loved one in a similar manner to the funerals of politicians, celebrities, and even criminals? (Expense not addressed in this piece.)

    The elderly who died at the Holyoke Soldiers Home were not allowed the presence of family while suffering and dying nor were they permitted military funerals awarded our veterans to be attended by many (if allowed at all).

    The grieving process is not equitable – once again, we see the “haves and the have nots” on full display.


    The CDC recommendation about funerals follows:

    “…The more people interact, the closer in distance the interaction is (less than 6 feet), and the longer the interaction lasts [few hours televised plus prep and arrivals?], the higher the risk of spreading Covid-19. The higher the level of community transmission in an area, the higher the risk of spreading COVID-19 []….Avoid sharing commonly used objects [podium? microphones?] such as religious aids (e.g., religious books, collection plates, programs, etc.,) to help lower the risk of spreading COVID-19….Consider limiting the number of people from different areas of the country [politicians don’t count? self-quarantine upon return wherever?] or any areas with significant spread of COVID-19 [Georgia is the 6th State on CDC listing – ….Consider limiting the number of people engaged in activities that produce respiratory droplets, which may contain virus, (e.g., singing or chanting) especially when participants are indoors and in close proximity to each other. If attendees choose to sing or chant, encourage them to wear cloth face coverings and increase distance between people to greater than 6 feet.”

    And so it goes….

  7. Dennis

    I think it is clear at this point that this has been a manufactured “crisis” from the beginning. It has never truly been about health and public safety. All one big exercise in socio-economic-political manipulation, devastation, and and control. A relatively mild flu-like virus was seized upon as a means of bringing about societal revolution (coupled with the BLM movement, a wholly owned subsidiary of Soros and the radical Left), a controlled demolition of the large sectors of the economy to favor Big Tech and Big Pharma, and even greater centralization of government control over people’s daily lives (telling you when you can leave your house, where you can go, and what you must wear on your face as a sign of Submission) coupled with promotion of government dependence through handouts and expansion of unemployment (when government’s controlled demolition of the economy caused the mass unemployment in the first place).

    It’s absolutely sickening. People need to wake up, refuse to submit to all of it. Stop pretending politicians and media know better and have your best interests at heart, that this is actually about just being safe and healthy. We need some Marats and Robespierres to go to work on about 2500 of the top politicians, media figures, and Big Pharma and Big Tech CEOs – proscription and lustration to decapitate the sick regime under which we are suffering.

  8. Dean Ericson

    “It has never truly been about health and public safety.”

    Indeed. The idea that the cabal orchestrating this satanic revolution actually cares about health is pretty funny, in a sick way. It would be like saying Stalin launched the Great Terror out of concern for the people’s health. All they care about is acquiring worldly power so as to wreak vengeance on their hated enemies.

    Briggs, always lots of great links and info here, thanks.

  9. Dennis

    LC, don’t you know Corona doesn’t spread at BLM riots and Politically Approved lovefests for Sainted BIPOC Decedents? It only spreads at Trump rallies and rallies by whites against forced face muzzling.

  10. Joy

    Stan and it was always going to happen.
    Another reason those in the know are waiting for at least a year or more to understand fully what happened and therefore what could have been done differently with more certainty of being effective.
    Everything shoulda always be followed by post action review.
    This was how. they were able to say indirect effects caused by epidemics are a real consideration to be factored into decisions.

  11. Sheri

    LC: Because you, the riffraff useless low-level marginal human do not deserve a funeral or any such thing. You are not important. The ELITE are important. They get all the good stuff. You get zip. I will note that most marginal humans VOTED to live like this and those who didn’t just sighed when it happened, so it does seem the elites are right. It’s not worth fighting for, so they just take what they want and the marginal humans do as they are told like obedient sheep.

  12. Joy

    William Briggs:
    Your “contacts” from the NHS probably don’t work on respiratory wards or in areas dealing with the disease outbreak. Why would you be surprised at that news?

    Most outpatient services were cancelled during the last few months services have changed out of recognition.
    I have ‘“contacts” as you put it Briggs. One midwife member of my family who has had the disease, for a start. I detect some fishing…A member of my brother’s wider family have lost a relative due to the disease and not allowed a large gathering for the funeral.

    Scheduled and routine appointments were cancelled. All non urgent and elective appointments were cancelled.
    So those normally treating outpatients or scheduled surgical post op patients of a routine type will have had nothing to do but sort out the store cupboard, order more stationary, make tea, make phone calls, Line up the highlighter pens and so on. Many with the skills were actually redeployed into respiratory care. Many more, (tens of thousands) were brought back for a variety of roles.

    The person who required CPR and an ambulance with blue light, arrived after about ten minutes, as I was still doing chest compressions with the phone under my ear and on the floor. So the team arrived with three individuals. They failed to persuade despite my agreeing and coercing that they needed to go to hospital. A waiver had to be signed. The staff explained that the A&E was very quiet because of covid. There were separate entrances for those with non covid symptoms and triage was set up at the entrance. Never the twain were allowed to meet.

    Re the harvesting remake;
    I think you’re probably suggesting that someone has lied about the figures by relabelling them in some way.

    It’s clear that if there are an average number of people who will die in a given month of the year, that if the people doing so are of the vulnerable population, they will simply die earlier than otherwise they would.
    THAT is what I understand by your remark. I hope you’re not suggesting otherwise.

    The entire point was not to have the NHS overwhelmed like Italy, in particular.
    That was achieved. Job done. Keep the numbers down until the Autumn and the vaccine.

    When it snows, we sit about twiddling our thumbs in physio quite often. We are told if you can’t get to work here go to your nearest hospital if there is really have snow. Same thing. All hands on deck.

    If people don’t want a vaccine they will not be forced. It has never happened yet.
    People have been refused entry if their childish’t vaccinated against measles, or if it hasn’t happened yet, it’s on the cards. I’m all for it. Do as you wish but face the consequences.
    The risk needs to be your own risk though. A vaccine or lack of will be a fair choice.

    In short, your conspiracy is really just on line gossip from bored members of staff if they are even that. Perhaps retired staff? There were thousands recruited on stand by.

  13. Rudolph Harrier

    A vaccine which was rushed, skipped several safety trials, and whose manufacturers are protected from legal action resulting from damage caused by the vaccine. What possible reason could there to be nervous about it?

  14. Fredo

    I have to laugh looking back at the start of this madness when the ‘Bees’ danced around
    ‘The National Epidemic Hive Response’. Trump got up and announced he reckoned 1.5 billion
    would be enough to deal with the crisis, this was followed immediately by Schumer’s
    denunciation of Trump’s assessment upping the ante to 8 billion. Trump’s capitulation
    was immediate ‘OK, OK, you don’t think 1.5 is enough I’m fine with 8 billion’. The flood
    gates were opened and the looting continues unabated- (just think if all this money had
    been spent on infrastructure or real problems). This is the Green New Deal by other means
    signed sealed and delivered. They’re still swooning at their unbridled success after the
    aborted swine flu and Ebola hoaxes failed to start the stamped. They did however prime
    the pump and the destruction of wealth is unprecedented, just as the ‘Great Depression’
    re-concentrated wealth unto the stratosphere, the ‘Great Reset’ is an epic millstone of
    corruption and chicanery long cloaked in a mantle of greenery.

  15. Joy

    Rudolph, Re risk and safety:
    The Oxford vaccine is already well into stage three.
    Safety is established but whether it actually prevents the virus has to be proved.
    We don’t have the numbers here and so Brazil and South Africa are helping out.
    I think the US, too.

    Regarding speed versus safety? No such trade off has happened.
    Time has been saved by many, some 27 candidates, all working together and sharing information in many instances, to help other countries out. There has been a lot of co-operation.

    Primarily it is the parallelisation which is a first. That has cut considerable time. Not safety. The companies have been able to do this because of massive additional funding from Government. So the risk is considered worth taking for the potential success. Our government said they would share the information once it was shown to be helpful, as with use of steroids.

    Risk actually meaning risk of losing money if it doesn’t actually succeed in it’s purpose of prevention. No risk to patients with a final vaccine is to be taken at all. That’s gossip and fear.

    People don’t have to take the vaccine if they prefer but the point is that everybody is then given back their freedom to gad about as they wish, with or without it. Good news all round.
    Herd immunity will soon be reached by numbers of people unvaccinated moving around, too.

    Patients are having side effects similar to having vaccines for travel. Sore arm, slight ‘flu-like’ reaction. That’s the body’s immunity doing its job. It may also be necessary for very elderly to have. Different kind of vaccine. They will have different applications.

  16. Gail Finke

    Ohio resident, here — finding sense somewhere, the governor “unbanned” HCQ the next day.

  17. James The Great

    It’s getting worse. Twice a week I get lectured by an aging boomer for not wearing a mask. Last Sunday I was threatened. Eventually I’m sure I’ll get into a fight.

    This is insanity. And no, I won’t submit to the mob, and I won’t get vaccinated.

  18. Johnno

    It’s always amusing to see people like ‘Joy’ contradict themselves without realizing it. As evidenced by statements like this, where it goes back and forth 3 times!

    “If people don’t want a vaccine they will not be forced. It has never happened yet.
    People have been refused entry if their childish’t vaccinated against measles, or if it hasn’t happened yet, it’s on the cards. I’m all for it. Do as you wish but face the consequences.
    The risk needs to be your own risk though. A vaccine or lack of will be a fair choice.”

    Very amusing given that Joy’s precious vaccine saviours exempt themselves from any and all responsibility for their toxins that Joy is threatening us all to take whilst hiding behind a shroud of pious concern. No risks involved there. Very unfair…

    Joy is also not familiar with the horror stories and nightmares of forced medical procedures from abroad in those there non-white countries. Is the cost of their lives and misery worth it for Joy? That’s also not very fair, but Joy is “all for it” I guess…

    Sadly the biggest obstacle has always ultimately been the many folks like ‘Joy’ who will ship us to the camps for the greater good. If Joy wants to openly side with the enemy and present us with veiled threats, then Joy should be reminded that there can be worldly and eternal consequences for that too. That risk is Joy’s to take. It’ll certainly be very fair.

  19. Johnno

    Don’t let stories like this slip by –

    Moderna’s top leaders sold company stock as the share value skyrocketed

    That are other reports that scientists and insider members of certain vaccine corps are selling off shares while the getting’s good, raising suspicion that maybe these vaccines aren’t going to turn out too well when time comes to open the floodgates, and we may be looking at a potential screw-up of the highest order that could lead to a significant drop in value. Otherwise you think shareholders who believe in their product will be settling in for the long term.

    Either way, the SEC seems interested, so there’s some funny business going on…

  20. Why Not Hydroxycloroquine?
    We don’t need a lockdown.
    We don’t need masks.
    We could restore our economy.
    Churches could revert to previous occupancy.
    You couldn’t sell a vaccine.
    We would vote in November.
    Trump would be re-elected.
    that’s why.

  21. ScoutAndMollie

    Make of it what you will. The current death from the Massive explosion in Lebanon is 78. The current death toll from COVID is 65 (John Hopkins dataset).

  22. Dennis

    Johnno: Yep, it’s clear Big Tech and Big Pharma and Governments Bureaucrats love Covid. This country is run by absolute psychopaths.

    People need to wake up, just stop obeying these psycho politicians and health bureaucrats pretending to have your health and interests at heart! Stop the madness. Coming home from the park this evening, as I drove into my neighborhood I saw a woman walking her dog alone on the sidewalk, no one else within sight in any direction. Yet she was walking with a face diaper on. People have utterly lost their minds.

    Thankfully I’ve not been accosted anywhere like the commenter above, but I basically have just stopped going anywhere except the park (and around here no one seems to go 10 yards out of the way of oncoming walkers on the trails, or otherwise gets bothered if you pass by relatively closely either) because I will go off on anyone who dares berate me about not wearing a face diaper (I do see outdoor diners in nearby restaurants without masks, obviously – I hope Fraudci et al. don’t expect people to eat with muzzles on! The servers of course are forced to suffer masks for their entire shifts, with the hypoxia and other maladies that brings on).

  23. Sylvain Allard

    Why do you continue to rely on CDC data after Trump Ordered that the data was not sent to CDC but to HHS.

    I can only realize that you are will fully misleading your results.

    The USA under report its cases and data. Desantis is doing a job at muddling the water.

    The reality is that hospitals are filled with patients. There are over a thousand of death everyday in the USA. Nearly half of them were Trump voter.

    The USA are committing suicide.

    The idiotic response to the virus brings is destroying the USA.

    Every country in the world to few exceptions went into strong quarantine. The fastest the country reacted the shortest were the quarantine and the fastest it was to reopen.

    I had to close my business for 2 months before I was able to do online classes, and 3 months before I had contact with my customers. Now my business is booming.

    Canada’s and the world economy is recovering. The US economy is fading, losing over 1 million job per week for months

    The USD is in free fall.

    You guys are a bunch of pathetic morons.

  24. Nate

    Sylvain, quarantine is when you place sick (or suspected sick) people in isolation. Whatever it is these ‘lockdowns’ are, they are not quarantine. But I suspect you know that and are lying, as you tend to do here.

  25. Joy

    It’s a gotcha argument then?
    If that’s so:
    The logic of whether the vaccine is safe is not a matter of my opinion it has already passed safety checks. You can review the information when published. Phase three is about whether the vaccine does what it claims. That is, work better than placebo. Prevent infection and illness due to the disease.

    That I think it’s fair for people to be given the choice is my own opinion. You are welcome to yours and to take your choice.
    Whether they are safe or not isn’t up for discussion. Safety refers to adverse reactions. You might argue that a vaccine not doing what it claims is also unsafe but then it won’t pass stage three, unless it is effective.

    I was referring to the examples where having no vaccine for measles or mumps is a reason to disallow entry.

    For example, staff are not allowed to work in private or NHS hospitals without vaccinations against TB Hep B, rubella. It isa a pre-requisite of signing your job contract. There’s not a case here for claiming tyranny or anything like it.
    The situation is already well established regarding vaccination. I’d put money on the fact the same is true in the US, since litigation is one of their favourite things.

    I think you’re getting wrapped up in the fear and the group sourced information about them.

  26. Dennis

    This virus is nowhere near serious or deadly enough to justify any kind of mandatory vaccine scheme by which dissenters are oppressed, ostracized, prevented from traveling & working etc. Otherwise we should have similar measures for ordinary flu, but we don’t, and most doctors and nurses don’t even bother with flu shots. Flu shots are only about 50% effective, and there is no reason to believe any alleged Covid vaccine will be any better. I’ve never had a flu shot, and haven’t had any flu-like illness for about 15 years, yet I know people who get the shot every year and end up feeling like garbage for 2-3 days (some of whom have also gotten flu again a few months later, despite the shot). It’s all part of a scheme to further enrich Big Pharma. They churn out an allegedly new flu vaccine every year on the cheap, and make a mint promoting it heavily and pushing it on the old and schoolchildren.

    The response to this corona virus – with the media and political paranoia and willed economic destruction un-abating, and mask tyranny ramping-up even as deaths fall and we approach herd immunity – has been the greatest collective crime against humanity yet known.

  27. Joy

    ‘This virus is nowhere near serious or deadly enough to justify any kind of mandatory vaccine scheme by which dissenters are oppressed, ostracized, prevented from traveling & working etc.’

    The country won’t be requiring your co-operation to achieve herd immunity. It could take a little while with all the misinformation but that will settle down in time when people learn intuitively whether they think they should have one or not. Doesn’t mean there won’t be public pressure applied to encourage take up. That is to be expected, Consent is always required for medical intervention except in cases of sectioning or incapacity.
    Injections are no different.

  28. Dennis

    Joy, once again you’ve missed the point. Many are in fact trying to push mandatory vaccines in order to ever again be allowed to live like sane, normal human beings, using Covid as the excuse and precipitating event for introducing “Health Passports,” subcutaneous chips,, mass tracking and surveillance, etc. (I guess it’s also just a co-incidence that the sinister Gates’ foundation late last year trademarked “ID2020,” a souped-up driver’s license-like ID that includes health info chips, tracking capability, etc.). Nothing to see there at all – pure coincidence, just move along people and wear your face diaper of Submission.

  29. Dr. Briggs or anyone else here that reads this
    Where are you taking the CDC weekly death numbers from? I noticed that at this link
    Which I thought you were taking these plots from – which may be an error on my part
    The numbers are preliminary and changes daily typically the last three weeks or so into the past
    So when I plot it out on say Tuesday – the death toll increases as the week proceeds – that is the last three weeks in the table update from time to time – please clarify
    Thanks in advance

  30. Joy

    Dennis, your country won’t need your compliance

    Nor will you need a mask AND a vaccine. The latter ‘negates’ the former, whatever you or anyone says about masks.

    The vaccine IS the beginning of the end of everybody’s problems with spread of this disease.

  31. John B()

    Jeffrey Johnson

    Yes from that link. Not an error
    Yes numbers change (usually up)

    [From just after the first Covid Deaths graph]: The total is 139 thousand, which is adjusted from time to time, as we’ll see in a moment (usually up).

    [From just after the second All Deaths graph]: As always, the dots are the last three weeks, recalling that the CDC says it can take up to 8 weeks to accumulate all deaths…(usually in three…)

    So yes – the CDC takes actual death certificate data assigned by date of death – with some exception depending how each state reports, site like WOM and John Hopkins use the date reported. Exceptions may include the state correcting for delays and/or previous reporting errors.

    I THINK that covers it

  32. Dennis

    I never said anything about the “need” for a “mask AND vaccine.” Besides, I’ll take neither, thanks.

    It isn’t just a question of how effective any a purported vaccine is, or whether it obviates the imaginary “need” for face diapers. Again you’ve ignored the real issue, which is the increasing talk of vaccines for this one virus , being mandatory and used as an excuse for increasingly totalitarian mechanisms of tracing, control, limits to one’s ability to work, travel, leave the home, shop, etc. (the control and mass submission and subjection are the real object of this all, Covid just the convenient excuse).

  33. John B()

    Sorry Jeffrey Jorgensen

    Don’t know why I did that
    Hey! I’m from the Midwest – I had to teach a professor from out east how to pronounce Knutson

  34. Yes I’m from the Midwest too – thanks for providing more explanation – I noticed that if I plotted something on say Monday – it would paint a more optimistic picture than say if I waited until later in the week – due to updating deaths due to incoming reporting –

  35. John B()


    Yeah! I admit to a bit of pessimism myself – I usually use WorldOMeters
    In the early days I would supplement that data with individual state data
    (Now WoM has data from all states so that helps)
    I’m convinced we’ve turned the corner on this “second wave”.

    See my comment from the fifth

  36. Sylvain Allard

    Wow McChuch, You don’t believe Fauci who is renowned worldwide as one of the most knowledgeable scientist in the epidemiology arena.

    Yet, you are ready to believe a bogus article that as not been peer reviewed by anyone and even more an article that the author doesn’t even tell is name and credentials.

    Have you even finished primary school to be such an idiot as to believe BS like this.

  37. Joy

    I read and understood your points from the beginning

    You, like me, want rid of this problem, however its cause,, contrived or whatever as you see it.

    When vaccines become available, ‘purported’ or otherwise, some now dread that they will be enforced. So don’t be surprised if you enemies take note of what you are annoyed or dreading and poke at it, cynically and fictitiously. I’ve learned in dealing with dishonest people that they don’t care about what’s true, just what they want and if they have to lie to get it that’s fine.

    There seems to be some places where advantage is being taken wholesale, in a variety of ways, by the epidemic. I think that is opportunism, incompetence, probably criminality price gouging, It’s not some grand plan. You and I aren’t going to agree on that [point.

    I believe that the left knows how to press the buttons of those on the right and vice versa. For left and right read ANY particular ‘group’.

    Things are THAT bad in the information world and with media.

    So it’s not that I don’t understand although I don’t Balme you much for thinking it.

    Mask and/or vaccine remark is said with all of the above in mind.

    Another way to look at it/ thought experiment, is that if suddenly it were revealed or just believed by a majority that masks are a waste of time or no longer necessary and a government tried to enforce them?_ Say you’re actually right?_ People just won’t wear them. I can tell you how lazy people really are about their own health as I know a lot about human nature in that regard. Quite right too! why should it be the only thing on people’s mind/? People have to live life without fear dominating.

    Your media is giving you no reason to be confident, about all of this. That’s not a coincidence.
    1 It is not as bad as you think
    2 Whatever happens, you’ll come out on top

    *sorry in advance for any typos , no excuse, just reasons

  38. Dennis

    Sylvain’s notion that Fraudci is a renowned and respected epidemiologist would be laughable if that sick joke weren’t so deadly and destructive given his position. What he IS is a world class manipulator and bureaucrat (riddled with financial conflicts of interest) who is 95% politician and about 5% doctor/scientist, a scheming narcissist having his day in the sun by being at the forefront of the Coronaparanoia pushing fear and flawed models and mask regimes (now he wants goggles!) that have zero scientific basis whatsoever (it’s a shame we don’t have sane politicians and health bureaucrats here as they do in places like Sweden, Netherlands, and Norway who understand at least this fact, among others, and have not made their citizens lives a living hell to feed their manipulative egos).

    Here’s a brief rundown of some of Fraudci’s corruption:

    There has been plentiful evidence for decades of Fraudci’s lying manipulative and corrupt nature, as this Spin article from 1989 shows:

    The guy is scum. The best place for him (and the rest of the manics destroying this country with this manufactured panic and paranoia – every day the mass media claims we’ve reached new “record” deaths, “cases” etc. – utter lies and manipulation of data, unless one seriously thinks the virus takes a wholly different course in America than it does the rest of the world that is getting back to normal. This country makes me puke.) would be the scaffold, with a Covid face diaper shoved down his throat first for maximum discomfort before opening the drop hatch

  39. Dennis

    Here’s more on Fraduci trying to suppress HCQ:

    Despite the fact that when he was editor of this journal when it published the following peer-reviewed article in 2005: “Chloroquine is a potent inhibitor of SARS coronavirus infection and spread” (

    The man is a dangerous psychopath. Instead of being in charge of federal govt. health policy, he should be locked in an insane asylum.

  40. Joy

    Yesterday I heard an update on the fatality rate of ventilated patients.
    Early in the epidemic it was 42%
    Now it is 20%.
    I won’t bother with details.

  41. John B()


    As I recall the odds were not good if you went into ICU period

  42. Dennis

    What’s that non sequitur about ventilators supposed to have to do with anything? Justification for psycho Cuomo, who early on was raging against Trump for not having 40 million or so ventilators in a government warehouse ready to give to New York, and who was treated as some kind of hero by the media for his “leadership”? Only 1/5th of ventilated patients die now…well that’s great. We should ventilate the entire political and mass media class. They are a virus more deadly than Covid-19.

  43. Joy

    Dennis, the response was to something John B had said elsewhere which I didn’t trawl through to find, since all these discussions merge into one for me.

    I didn’t know ventilators were a thing for you, too.
    What would you like to discuss about ventilators? The rush for ventilators early on was a very real one. Trump did the right thing as did other countries. We had engineering companies working on them ourselves and the government said, “if you make one we will buy it.” Companies did so. Some will remain in that line of business going forward, I’m sure.
    Italy’s death toll was largely due to the lack of ventilators/ITU beds, which involve a ventilator as an option.
    There’s no controversy about ventilators.

  44. Dennis

    The issue with ventilators is simply that they were the wrong treatment, and yet another aspect of the initial hysteria that proved wildly inaccurate (Yet those like Cuomo who contributed to the initial ventilator hysteria have never been called to account, just as he has never been called to account for the thousands of nursing home deaths that can be laid at his feet). Ventilators kill more Covid patients than they save.

    ” Companies did so. Some will remain in that line of business going forward, I’m sure” – Yes, so long as the government offers them a guaranteed buyer, no matter whether they are actually needed.

    Italy’s death toll (it is now clear the initial numbers were greatly exaggerated there as well) had nothing to do with lack of ventilators.

  45. Joy

    Dennis, you appear to have no idea, with respect to treatment of respiratory distress in general, along with the working ways and methods of clinical practice and how it progresses.

    A clue is, not by laboratory testing or controlled trials, particularly in emergencies. CERTAINLY
    in the rare situation we find ourselves in now, new disease, no established “protocols”, no cure.

    Your received assumption that ventilators were killing people is just that.
    Given that you don’t accept plain character witness statements which go against your ideas, you’re not going to take any notice of what I write. That’s fine.

  46. Dennis

    I’m not sure in what sense or for whom you are a “character witness,”* but ok. It doesn’t change the fact that it has been evident for some time that the early obsession with ventilators for Covid was misguided, whether the death rate form ventilated patients is 43% or 20%.

    *Character Witness (definition): One who gives evidence in a legal proceeding as to another’s general character or reputation, conduct, moral and ethical qualities, etc.

  47. John B()


    One thing you have to keep in mind, the original predictions were millions of cases as well as deaths. Respiratory illnesses just like pneumonia often require respirators. Even pneumonia patients on respirators have only an 80% survival rate, so Joy’s news about Covid respirator survival is good news.

  48. John B()

    And I’m talking many millions of hospital cases, not just positive tests

    the 2017/2018 flu season had over ten million hospitalizations and they experienced everything that was worried about this time

  49. Dennis

    The original predictions, based on thoroughly flawed models like those of that mendacious idiot Neil Ferguson (who, based on his wildly wrong predictions involving every illness outbreak over the last 20 years, should never have been listened to by any sane person, or even employed), never had any basis in reality.

  50. Dennis

    And furthermore, if there were so many hospitalizations in 2017-2018 for ordinary flu, why did the world not shut down and all normal life and functioning, and any shred of human decency, dignity, or enjoyment be forced to cease then? The plandemic of the oligarchs and NWO just not ready in time then?

  51. john b()


    One thing about the reaction to the 2018 flu vs today
    (Briggs has that series of tweets and they mostly referred to lack of hospital space, ICUs and ventilators
    healthcare workers were less concerned for themselves)

    In 2017/2018 only 39% of the country got vaccinated, however, ALL of the health care workers were vaccinated for whatever that was worth, but with that and PPE’s they were more concerned for patients they couldn’t help

    Without a vaccine, healthcare workers are at risk, the Spanish Flu was devastating to our healthcare workers especially nurses

    Regardless of how we feel, about all this, you have to put yourself in their place (more than a thousand have died so far)

  52. Joy

    A quick comment about the ‘character witness’.
    I realise the term is a legal one and understand its meaning there.

    Was referring to my posting and referencing the minutes on one or more witness statements given by Chris Whitty. Before select committee. Those are legally binding statements. As are all medical matters written in medical notes, signed and dated by staff.
    All statements made in parliament are recorded and those made on behalf of or in advice for the government are recorded. Poor secretaries.

    That was all I meant.
    I happen to think he is one of the most impressive witnesses I’ve heard in a long time. Since my work has been amongst medical types of all sorts, one gets to know the people well enough to judge their veracity. Not a proof, of course, but I was very surprised you found him otherwise. That’s also find.
    Anyway, I hope you’re less angry?

  53. Dennis

    I didn’t “find” him anything. I said before that I wasn’t going to spend 2 hours listening to the UK’s version of Fauci make statements to a government committee. There are more valuable ways to spend one’s time and better and more reliable sources of information than a government bureaucrat paid to give the party line and confirm the Narrative that has clearly been decided upon from the beginning.

    Depends in what respect “less angry”!

    In general, no – things are manifestly getting worse worldwide (witness the madness in Aus and NZ over a handful of “cases”; and have you seen the video of the Mask-stasi in Australia choking a woman and wrestling her to the ground for not wearing a Covidmuzzle?) and the insanity, especially as regards face diapers, seems unending. And now the push for strict compulsory vaccination regimes (with sever penalties for non-compliance) is gaining steam as well (see Briggs’ new posing today, among others elsewhere). Never mind they’ve been rushed through without proper trials, etc. and are all about enriching Big Pharma, not actual public health

    In one specific sense though, I am, if not less “angry,” at least relieved – My probate hearing for tomorrow is now via Zoom or phone call in, thus I will avoid the anxiety and distress associated right now with going downtown and also being forced to wear a face diaper in order to enter the building. Previously, before the courts re-opened in June for in-person hearings, only emergency issues were being done via Zoom or phone while all else was simply delayed indefinitely. Got a letter in the mail Saturday from the court saying all routine probate hearing are now via Zoom and phone as well (not sure why the change. My guess is that’s it’s not fear of the virus as such, but the fact that even after they re-opened they were still only running at about half the normal case-load because of the inane mask and “social distancing” requirements, so they figured for routine things they can get through more of the case backlog by just going to zoom and phone and getting rid of the in-person hassles). Hopefully this will keep up indefinitely, because I had planned to refuse to take any new probate cases so long as the forced face diaper regime was in effect. Knowing that the appointment hearing will be by zoom or phone means I can safely take new probate cases without worrying about having to submit to the de-facing of humanity currently crushing the world.

  54. Joy

    I read your first line Dennis. I’ll respond tomorrow

  55. Joy

    Dennis, your first paragraph,

    “I didn’t “find” him anything. I said before that I wasn’t going to spend 2 hours listening to the UK’s version of Fauci make statements to a government committee. There are more valuable ways to spend one’s time and better and more reliable sources of information than a government bureaucrat paid to give the party line and confirm the Narrative that has clearly been decided upon from the beginning.”

    …so YOU say, without bias and without having actually witnessed the evidence you dismissed AND found some precious time to write about.

    That paragraph was full of untruth. Provable untruth, but like I said before you’e gone beyond the caring about what is true. Just be careful who uses your anger emotion to carry out their ends, though. Watch out for that.

  56. Dennis

    I haven’t “dismissed” any evidence. You never presented any. And posting a 2 hour government hearing by some bureaucrat presenting a packaged Narrative doesn’t constitute compelling “evidence” I am obliged to waste my time listening to. I don’t even know what it is you say this guy was even talking about (what’s his shtick? Masks? Death rate? Lockdown fanatic? Thinks Neil Ferguson was a real scientist that it made sense for the government to listen to? Need for Vaccine instead of natural herd immunity? Wants forced vaccination regime?). Apparently you like his demeanor and general affect, so he must be telling the Truth, but about what supposedly…I have no idea. He’s such a compelling and renowned Truth teller I’ve never even heard of him (I’ve even forgotten his name..what was it Whittly? Whitby?) outside of your cheerleading for him. You seem rather obsessed with this bureaucrat, as if he were some incontrovertible oracle of Truth.

    I only care about what is true, but its is quite clear the mask-Nazis and Covid-paranoiacs don’t give a damn and wouldn’t know what Truth was if it punched them in their muzzled faces (which they deserve, for starters, then move on to other punishments for their crimes). It isn’t about truth anyway for the media and politicians who have weaponized this virus for nefarious ends. It’s about politics, power, control.

  57. Joy

    The death numbers already speak for themselves.
    To be pro life means to be in favour of saving life, whatever the cost or ‘inconvenience’?

    I really think your “side’s” argument would be more logically honest saying that they’d rather nothing had been done to intervene. However, most daren’t say it they. know what a lousy argument that is, and how intuitively wrong it appears. So they resort to conspiracy and denial.

    The solution around the world has been different, the epidemic infections different, different timing, geography, demographics, genetics, economics? MOST have had to come round to the realisation that group action is the right thing to do. That protecting health care provision is the priority even if they didn’t previously know that this is epidemic management 101. Matters not if the system is public or private

    Dr Whitty said right at the Start,
    “this is going to be a marathon, not a. Sprint”.
    Had you listened to just a few minutes you would have discovered that he does not think entirely different from yourself. He just accepts the reality for what it is.

    The only way out of it is natural or man made immunity.
    The so called ‘natural’ way will cause the further death of of thousands more people.

  58. Dennis

    What the death numbers (exaggerated in any case) speak for is proof that the response to this particular virus has been massively overblown. It was not merely a mistake, but an outright crime. And it continues, despite the fact that any actual “crisis” from the virus itself has already passed.

    “MOST have had to come round to the realisation that group action is the right thing to do. That protecting health care provision is the priority even if they didn’t previously know that this is epidemic management 101.”

    This is nonsensical if you don’t define what you mean by “group action” or “protecting health care provision”. Mass mask wearing by the public (vast majority of whom are asymptomatic) does not protect anyone from anything (it’s pure virtue signalling theater). So yes, I am opposed to “group action” that has no rational basis. You clearly assume those terms must mean the most extreme and economically and socially damaging lockdown and mask-nazi measures in case anyone anywhere might be more at risk for one particular virus than some other people (never mind the deaths and damage to health caused by the lockdowns and other extreme measures themselves – which far outstrip any deaths attributed to Covid, and whose effects will be far longer term. That you try to pose as taking the “pro-life” position is grotesque. Life has risks. Do you propose we adopt a 10mph speed limit as well? After all, if it saves one life from a car crash, it’s worth it right?).

    What should have been done is to take some reasonable and proportionate measures to protect the most vulnerable – Those in nursing homes, the aged and others with serious underlying conditions, etc (which is essentially the same that should be done to protect the same people from things like flu, pneumonia, etc. every year). The rest of the world should have been allowed to get on with life, just as people did during the Hong Kong flu of 1969, Asian Flu of 1959, the 2008-9 flu, etc. etc. Are we going to shut down the world now every time some new virus strain pops up every few years, and the mass media and political scum decide to scare the world to death? The Covid extremist paranoiacs are the most anti-life people on the planet.

  59. Joy

    Check 7:00, the block graph in blue.
    36,000 average flu deaths annually, in the US. Is that incorrect?

    That number is supplied by the CDC, presumably. On some Joint Academic Network?
    Re the vaccine:
    If you don’t get angry on an average year about having (or not) a vaccine, for flu, there’s no reason to take a different mentality over the upcoming covid one. Especially if it gets you out of the mask problem. You have to look to Bill Gates to get upset? I don’t care about Bill Gates, never did.
    Soros is an Enemy of the Uk. Separate matter entirely, but names which keep popping up.

    It’s all in the force of transmission and it’s novelty to humans.

  60. Dennis

    As usual you’ve responded to what I wrote above with a string of non-sequiturs and ignore the real issue with vaccines.

    CDC estimate between 24,000 and 62,000 flu deaths in the US in an average year (because there is not generally the kind of mass panic and testing associated with flu, the numbers are difficult to estimate). I’m not sure what your point is supposed to be. This year’s numbers are likely under-counted because so many flu deaths are probably being swept into and classed as Covid since the symptoms are often similar and doctors and hospital are being pressed to inflate the Covid count anyway for variety of reasons.

    “If you don’t get angry on an average year about having (or not) a vaccine, for flu, there’s no reason to take a different mentality over the upcoming covid one.” – As usual you are missing the point entirely and obfuscating the real issue around potential Covid vaccines, aside from the safety of improperly studied and tested vaccines that are being rushed to market. No one pushes mandatory flu vaccine schemes on threat of a bundle of civil penalties ranging from denial of general health care or insurance to limitations on travel, or pushes mass surveillance “tracking and tracing” schemes, or Chinese-style “social credit” systems for those who don’t get the flu shot. Wake up. That’s what I and many others are angry about. Covid is being weaponized for nefarious purposes to serve social, political, and economic agendas that have nothing to do with mere health or safety and real concern over what is at bottom a fairly routine virus that is hardly the unprecedented threat to humanity that the powers that be would like everyone to believe. Nor does anyone shut down the world every year because of flu, or claim nothing can function as normal or that everyone should be forced to wear a face diaper unless and until everyone is vaccinated. The “mask problem” has nothing to do with whether there is a vaccine or not because it is a false problem adopted by ignorant power-mad politicians (and mindless masses of sheeple) and should be scrapped on many grounds with or without a vaccine available.

  61. Joy

    “As usual you’ve responded to what I wrote above with a string of non-sequiturs and ignore the real issue with vaccines.”

    Just think about the average yearly flu deaths figure for the US.
    171 thousand V 36 thousand.
    If you and your side are saying they care about life and looking after the vulnerable, why does the commentary never reflect that?
    I know the answer.

  62. Dennis

    “If you and your side are saying they care about life and looking after the vulnerable, why does the commentary never reflect that”

    Again, I addressed that above about protecting the most vulnerable while not destroying the world and all life for everyone else. You corona-paranoia fanatics who think all life should be shutdown and people forced to suffocate on face diapers, etc. are clearly beyond reason. The entire approach to this whole coronavirus has been utterly irrational and disproportionate whether we’re talking about 34k, or 64k, or 171k deaths (and you seem to conveniently ignore the issue with the alleged death toll from Covid being inflated, and just accept on faith the numbers we’re being given in the media and by politicians who are motivated by doing anything to preserve a sense of fear, panic, and “crisis”).

  63. Joy

    You corona-paranoia fanatics” …that’s obviously irrational talk and projection. Not a logical remark.
    Nor is your insistence on repeating ‘diaper’ ‘diaper’, it’s, well, childish.
    They’re called nappies, anyway.
    It makes you angry because it impinges on you. How dare the vulnerable population spoil your day, how very dare they?
    That’s an honest argument right there. Don’t pretend there’s anything American or patriotic or noble about it.

  64. john b()

    As I commented elsewhere

    I sense a little petulance and entitlement

    I do not like the criminalization, but…

  65. Joy

    and you were right and I should have left it there.
    People don’t really want solutions, they want to spar

  66. Catch here, Joy, is that we are so far into it that masks are basically, outside of certain areas/conditions, placebos. It didn’t help that the disease was co-opted for political purposes, almost from the beginning.

  67. Dennis

    What’s childish and irrational is thinking that forcing people to walk around looking mindless paranoiacs with useless muzzles on their faces makes sense and is not an insane overreaction to a virus with an IFR in the same range as flu.

    What’s childish and irrational Is thinking all life, joy, and freedom should come to a halt and be forever subservient humoring you and others suffering from such irrational paranoia and fear of life.

    What’s childish and irrational is claiming that you are acting on behalf of “the vulnerable population,” when the truly vulnerable segment of the population is very small and could be easily protected by much less drastic, less socially and economically destructive, mind-numbing and soul-destroying measures (and less destructive of life as well – the lockdowns and ongoing collateral damage from them will kill more people than this virus and will have wider-ranging long term effects for decades)

    As for the terminology, if governments and media want to treat everyone like babies, and the masses want to act like it, then yes, call them what they are – face diapers (or nappies if Brits prefer) to keep a world full of overgrown babies subservient, abject, paranoid, fearful, and wallowing in their own mindless filth. I hope they all choke on them.

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